Help cleaning a Wootz Talwar + comments

AkaaliSingh · 20th September 2013, 02:00 PM

Greetings all! i don't post a lot on here but love to read on here. anyways i picked up a very nice talwar with a shamshire like blade.

options? its a wall hanger that came from a pub for 60+ years. due to this the blade is darkened with smoke etc.

i've tired to clean up the blade with sand , after hours here is the result. the blade is wootz as the spine has the forging lines or "crack" that most wootz blades carry.

can anybody advise me on how to clean up this piece any further and how to also etch the wootz pattern out? will lemon juice just do the trick?

and also any comments on what circa and place this sword comes from?

i'm thinking 1800's... and south indian? the blade seems older to the hilt...

and any idea for the little pommel coming of the hilt?

thank you waiting on your replies!

JamesKelly · 21st September 2013, 01:10 AM

I would be inclined to clean it more gently. Scrub with bronze or copper wool and some penetrating oil. That can remove dirt and some rust, with less damage to any original finish that may remain.

AJ1356 · 21st September 2013, 08:02 PM

From what you are describing it seems to be folded steal not wootz. Either way, sand is too rough and would leave lines in the blade. For cleaning I use a scrub pad (Scotch pad) and oil, it takes a long time to clean but it does not scratch the blade. If you do a simple search, there are a few very good articles on this forum on how to etch a blade. From the pics you still have a very long way to go before trying a etch.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st September 2013, 08:06 PM

Sand doesn't work...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st September 2013, 08:25 PM

Salaams All... Sand? New one on me... looks like that does not work...

You could start off at the low end of the scale on chemical cleaning with coke cola and work up the scale through all the different juices; pineapple juice works ...tomato sauce..I've had reasonable results with lemon salt... then onto the vinegar variations cold then more aggressively you could go for hot...but watch it as its pretty strong and very active...With vinegar you can paint it on and you should see bubbles fairly quickly.. Windex is good to rinse it with. Ferric Chloride is what the serious restorers use but unless you are used to it I would stick with the lesser dangerous methods... You will find all these ideas on library ...type in "etching" I suppose? Use 00 paper as after the treatment the blade goes greyish dull but responds to 00 . With any of the strong chemicals keep it away from the delicate decorative silver or gold Koftgari designs on the hilt or blade...

You can rig up a shallow trough and fill it with a litre of coke and drop the entire thing into that for a day at a time ... It will shift much of the oxidation and gunge.

To prepare the blade use acetone to clean it... Neutralising the sauces or juices is usually ok with hot soapy water ... but Windex on the strong stuff. For polishing the blade afterwards 00 or brillo or steel wool or those pan scourer pads all works ok.

Don't use ferric chloride unless you know your chemistry and always dilute it properly. Otherwise you will kill the blade! .... Type into search Etching.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

AkaaliSingh · 21st September 2013, 09:46 PM

Thank you all for your replies! Sand is still used to clean antique and new weapons in northern india. its a traditional method of Sikhs.. i will try the coke trick and maybe try to simple etch which is a long a long time away.

estcrh · 22nd September 2013, 05:59 PM

There is an alternate rust removal method which seems to work. Rust removal using electrolysis.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd September 2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkaaliSingh

Thank you all for your replies! Sand is still used to clean antique and new weapons in northern india. its a traditional method of Sikhs.. i will try the coke trick and maybe try to simple etch which is a long a long time away.

Salaams AkaaliSingh Ah! so sorry I hope you didn't mind my throw away comment ... Well that is interesting and I imagine the final result would be very fine... There's plenty of sand around here ... I should give it a try.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

20th September 2013, 02:00 PM	#1
AkaaliSingh Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 31	Help cleaning a Wootz Talwar + comments Greetings all! i don't post a lot on here but love to read on here. anyways i picked up a very nice talwar with a shamshire like blade. options? its a wall hanger that came from a pub for 60+ years. due to this the blade is darkened with smoke etc. i've tired to clean up the blade with sand , after hours here is the result. the blade is wootz as the spine has the forging lines or "crack" that most wootz blades carry. can anybody advise me on how to clean up this piece any further and how to also etch the wootz pattern out? will lemon juice just do the trick? and also any comments on what circa and place this sword comes from? i'm thinking 1800's... and south indian? the blade seems older to the hilt... and any idea for the little pommel coming of the hilt? thank you waiting on your replies! Attached Images

21st September 2013, 08:06 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Sand doesn't work... Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 21st September 2013 at 08:26 PM.

21st September 2013, 01:10 AM	#2
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	I would be inclined to clean it more gently. Scrub with bronze or copper wool and some penetrating oil. That can remove dirt and some rust, with less damage to any original finish that may remain.

21st September 2013, 08:02 PM	#3
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	From what you are describing it seems to be folded steal not wootz. Either way, sand is too rough and would leave lines in the blade. For cleaning I use a scrub pad (Scotch pad) and oil, it takes a long time to clean but it does not scratch the blade. If you do a simple search, there are a few very good articles on this forum on how to etch a blade. From the pics you still have a very long way to go before trying a etch.

21st September 2013, 08:25 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All... Sand? New one on me... looks like that does not work... You could start off at the low end of the scale on chemical cleaning with coke cola and work up the scale through all the different juices; pineapple juice works ...tomato sauce..I've had reasonable results with lemon salt... then onto the vinegar variations cold then more aggressively you could go for hot...but watch it as its pretty strong and very active...With vinegar you can paint it on and you should see bubbles fairly quickly.. Windex is good to rinse it with. Ferric Chloride is what the serious restorers use but unless you are used to it I would stick with the lesser dangerous methods... You will find all these ideas on library ...type in "etching" I suppose? Use 00 paper as after the treatment the blade goes greyish dull but responds to 00 . With any of the strong chemicals keep it away from the delicate decorative silver or gold Koftgari designs on the hilt or blade... You can rig up a shallow trough and fill it with a litre of coke and drop the entire thing into that for a day at a time ... It will shift much of the oxidation and gunge. To prepare the blade use acetone to clean it... Neutralising the sauces or juices is usually ok with hot soapy water ... but Windex on the strong stuff. For polishing the blade afterwards 00 or brillo or steel wool or those pan scourer pads all works ok. Don't use ferric chloride unless you know your chemistry and always dilute it properly. Otherwise you will kill the blade! .... Type into search Etching. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

21st September 2013, 09:46 PM	#6
AkaaliSingh Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 31	Thank you all for your replies! Sand is still used to clean antique and new weapons in northern india. its a traditional method of Sikhs.. i will try the coke trick and maybe try to simple etch which is a long a long time away.

22nd September 2013, 05:59 PM	#7
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	There is an alternate rust removal method which seems to work. Rust removal using electrolysis. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm