Simple but old Minasbad

Sajen · 31st July 2013, 12:04 AM

Not the first time that something pop up when I just have bought something. But a Minasbad was already so long on my wish list and the price was just alluring so I can't resist.

It is not very fancy and have seen for sure much better times but I think it's quite old and with some care it can look nice again. Here the pictures from the seller.

Sajen · 31st July 2013, 12:55 AM

I get doubts if it is a Minasbad, the blade form is different from other examples wich was shown here before and it is with 20 inches rather short. But I think that I am correct with the origin (Bicol), so what is it?

Robert · 31st July 2013, 01:59 AM

Hello Detlef,
With the chisel ground blade I do not think that this would be classified as a minasbad either. Looks Visayan to me.

Best,
Robert

Battara · 31st July 2013, 05:00 AM

Robert I just saw this and I agree - not a minisbad, although it somewhat looks like one regarding the hilt. The blade does not fit the profile however and does look Visayan, even resembling those from Panay. The hilt could be a form of deity hilt, which also is Visayan (again possibly from Panay?).

Sajen · 31st July 2013, 10:33 PM

Thank you both for comment and have to agree with you. A further sign that it isn't a Bicol blade is that the tang isn't peened through the hilt.

Would like to read what Bangkaya think about this knife, maybe he will be able to pin down the origin.

Robert, do you have something similar in your collection?

Regards,

Detlef

Robert · 2nd August 2013, 07:19 AM

Hello Detlef, Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you on this but again I have been under the weather for the last few days. However I do have one item in my collection that has a hilt with a quite similar carving. I believe that the scabbard on your item at one time had a curled toe "now broken" that would have looked similar to the one shown below. The main difference is that the blade on my example has a curved spine while on yours the spine looks straight. My example has a more rustic appearance to it while yours is more refined in its appearance. The monkey skull has been removed from the scabbard, I just haven't taken any new photos of this piece yet.

Best,
Robert

VVV · 2nd August 2013, 08:57 AM

Nice catch again Detlef!
You seem to be both very active and lucky this month.

This bolo was on my watch list, too, but then "somehow"

the auction was ended in advance.
Here are three old Visayan swords from my collection that I think are related.

Michael

PS The one without a D-guard is about 2/3 the size of the others.

Nonoy Tan · 2nd August 2013, 11:01 AM

Those Bisayan hilts appear to be Chinese-inspired. They look like Chinese dragons - perhaps a result of influence from Chinese traders and immigrants?

VANDOO · 2nd August 2013, 04:12 PM

PERHAPS THE BUDDHIST FOO DOG/ LION IS THE INSPIRATION FOR THIS FORM OF CARVED HANDLE.
WHAT SETS THESE KNIVES APART FROM WHAT WE USED TO REFER TO AS MONSTER HEAD BOLO'S ? NICE KNIFE IT SHOULD CLEAN UP NICELY.

FilAmfighter1 · 2nd August 2013, 05:00 PM

I think based up my information that this a Bagabo sword, a nice one at that. The sheath is definitely made in the PI looks like about 1900s, due to the thin can metal used to hold the 2 piece sheath. The monkey head carving makes sense due to the people from India having settled there. Know the cultural lore and influences.

Sajen · 2nd August 2013, 11:47 PM

Thank you Robert (hope you feel well again) and Michael for posting examples with similar hilts. So this bolo is from the Visayas but now I would be interested from which island. When I read again the explanation from Bangkaya in the thread about Roberts bolo I think we can exclude the Waray origin like by Roberts bolo. But the first (very nice BTW) one Michael has shown look very similar from the handle and the blade, Michael, do you know from where is this one?

Best regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 2nd August 2013, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonoy Tan

Those Bisayan hilts appear to be Chinese-inspired. They look like Chinese dragons - perhaps a result of influence from Chinese traders and immigrants?

Hello Nonoy,

very interesting theory. So little is written and known about Visayn weapons, someone should write a book about them!

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 2nd August 2013, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

PERHAPS THE BUDDHIST FOO DOG/ LION IS THE INSPIRATION FOR THIS FORM OF CARVED HANDLE.
WHAT SETS THESE KNIVES APART FROM WHAT WE USED TO REFER TO AS MONSTER HEAD BOLO'S ? NICE KNIFE IT SHOULD CLEAN UP NICELY.

Thank you Barry,

let's see what I will be able to manage!

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 2nd August 2013, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilAmfighter1

I think based up my information that this a Bagabo sword, a nice one at that. The sheath is definitely made in the PI looks like about 1900s, due to the thin can metal used to hold the 2 piece sheath. The monkey head carving makes sense due to the people from India having settled there. Know the cultural lore and influences.

What let you think in this way? Can you explain this a little bit further, maybe with examples?

Regards,

Detlef

Nonoy Tan · 3rd August 2013, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

PERHAPS THE BUDDHIST FOO DOG/ LION IS THE INSPIRATION FOR THIS FORM OF CARVED HANDLE.
WHAT SETS THESE KNIVES APART FROM WHAT WE USED TO REFER TO AS MONSTER HEAD BOLO'S ? NICE KNIFE IT SHOULD CLEAN UP NICELY.

Yes, the Foo Dog/Lion. The similarities can't be ignored.

Battara · 3rd August 2013, 05:46 AM

A good point Nonoy Tan and Vandoo - Chinese influences have been in the Philippines for over 1000 years!

VVV · 4th August 2013, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

[snip]... Michael, do you know from where is this one?

Best regards,

Detlef

Hello Detlef,

No, unfortunately not.

Michael

Sajen · 4th August 2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Hello Detlef,

No, unfortunately not.

Michael

Hello Michael,

maybe Bangkaya see this thread and will be able to pin down both!

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 12th August 2013, 02:15 PM

Have received the sword and it is a nice one. I would guess that it is from around 1890, it has a very thick blade (9 mm at the base), it is 51 cm long without scabbard and a heavy one. The guard is from black horn.
Here some pictures after some maintenance. Maybe I will look for brass bullen-nails in the same size to replace the missing ones at the handle.

Sajen · 12th August 2013, 02:23 PM

Here a picture together with my other Visayan swords.

31st July 2013, 12:04 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Simple but old Minasbad Not the first time that something pop up when I just have bought something. But a Minasbad was already so long on my wish list and the price was just alluring so I can't resist. It is not very fancy and have seen for sure much better times but I think it's quite old and with some care it can look nice again. Here the pictures from the seller. Attached Images

31st July 2013, 12:55 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	I get doubts if it is a Minasbad, the blade form is different from other examples wich was shown here before and it is with 20 inches rather short. But I think that I am correct with the origin (Bicol), so what is it? Attached Images

2nd August 2013, 07:19 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you on this but again I have been under the weather for the last few days. However I do have one item in my collection that has a hilt with a quite similar carving. I believe that the scabbard on your item at one time had a curled toe "now broken" that would have looked similar to the one shown below. The main difference is that the blade on my example has a curved spine while on yours the spine looks straight. My example has a more rustic appearance to it while yours is more refined in its appearance. The monkey skull has been removed from the scabbard, I just haven't taken any new photos of this piece yet. Best, Robert Attached Images

2nd August 2013, 08:57 AM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice catch again Detlef! You seem to be both very active and lucky this month. This bolo was on my watch list, too, but then "somehow" the auction was ended in advance. Here are three old Visayan swords from my collection that I think are related. Michael PS The one without a D-guard is about 2/3 the size of the others. Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 2nd August 2013 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Added one more sword and a PS

2nd August 2013, 04:12 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PERHAPS THE BUDDHIST FOO DOG/ LION IS THE INSPIRATION FOR THIS FORM OF CARVED HANDLE. WHAT SETS THESE KNIVES APART FROM WHAT WE USED TO REFER TO AS MONSTER HEAD BOLO'S ? NICE KNIFE IT SHOULD CLEAN UP NICELY. Attached Images

31st July 2013, 01:59 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, With the chisel ground blade I do not think that this would be classified as a minasbad either. Looks Visayan to me. Best, Robert

31st July 2013, 05:00 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Robert I just saw this and I agree - not a minisbad, although it somewhat looks like one regarding the hilt. The blade does not fit the profile however and does look Visayan, even resembling those from Panay. The hilt could be a form of deity hilt, which also is Visayan (again possibly from Panay?).

31st July 2013, 10:33 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank you both for comment and have to agree with you. A further sign that it isn't a Bicol blade is that the tang isn't peened through the hilt. Would like to read what Bangkaya think about this knife, maybe he will be able to pin down the origin. Robert, do you have something similar in your collection? Regards, Detlef

2nd August 2013, 11:01 AM	#8
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Those Bisayan hilts appear to be Chinese-inspired. They look like Chinese dragons - perhaps a result of influence from Chinese traders and immigrants?

2nd August 2013, 05:00 PM	#10
FilAmfighter1 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Torrance Posts: 49	Bagabo sword I think based up my information that this a Bagabo sword, a nice one at that. The sheath is definitely made in the PI looks like about 1900s, due to the thin can metal used to hold the 2 piece sheath. The monkey head carving makes sense due to the people from India having settled there. Know the cultural lore and influences.

2nd August 2013, 11:47 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank you Robert (hope you feel well again) and Michael for posting examples with similar hilts. So this bolo is from the Visayas but now I would be interested from which island. When I read again the explanation from Bangkaya in the thread about Roberts bolo I think we can exclude the Waray origin like by Roberts bolo. But the first (very nice BTW) one Michael has shown look very similar from the handle and the blade, Michael, do you know from where is this one? Best regards, Detlef

3rd August 2013, 05:46 AM	#16
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	A good point Nonoy Tan and Vandoo - Chinese influences have been in the Philippines for over 1000 years!

12th August 2013, 02:15 PM	#19
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Have received the sword and it is a nice one. I would guess that it is from around 1890, it has a very thick blade (9 mm at the base), it is 51 cm long without scabbard and a heavy one. The guard is from black horn. Here some pictures after some maintenance. Maybe I will look for brass bullen-nails in the same size to replace the missing ones at the handle. Attached Images

12th August 2013, 02:23 PM	#20
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Here a picture together with my other Visayan swords. Attached Images