ID Help On Unknown Spear

[Robert]

Hello, Just picked this up this rather interesting looking spear and would like your help on identifying where it could be from. I was thinking that it might be Naga but as I have found no other examples it is only a guess. It has a total length of 6 ft while the spear head itself is 12 inches in length, 2 inches wide near the tip and 3 inches wide at the base. These are ail approximate measurements and I will give more accurate ones once it arrives. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Sellers photos below.

Best,
Robert

[Battara]

I'm taking a guess. Indonesian for sure. Possibly Nias?

[Sajen]

I am with Jose, could be Indonesian. Would like to see better pictures.

Regards,

Detlef

[colin henshaw]

Pretty sure its not Naga - they don't have that type of iron sleeve on the shaft.

[Robert]

Hello everyone, I believe that Jose might be right on the origin of this spear. While I cannot find a photo of this exact style of spearhead I did find a reference in Albert Van Zonneveld's book "Traditional Weapons Of The Indonesian Archipelago" on page 146 where he states;
TOHO NIAS A collective term for a variety of spears. The point varies from small to large, with near the base two more or less protruding points, or a barb on one side. The shaft's upper side usually has a conical ring of brass or iron and may be decorated with pig's or goat's hair."
While there is no example or drawing of a spearhead exactly like the one I have shown above it does seem to fall under this description. Hopefully Albert might see this thread and be kind enough to give us his opinion on this item.
As soon as this arrives I will post more photos. Thank you all for your comments and help with this.

Best,
Robert

[Albert]

The spear point does have a certain resemblence with a form we see in Nias, but IMO it has another provenance.

1. Most Nias spears are more refined and more slender.
2. The iron of Nias spears is better polished.
3. This type of iron sleeve is not seen on Nias.
4. The shaft of Nias spears usually is adorned in some way with woven rattan straps, or brass strips.

So, it is not likely that it is a Nias spear.
Unfortunately I do not have a clue from where this spear does come from.
Attached is a photo on which the most common types of Nias spearpoints can be seen.

[Robert]

Hello Albert, and thank you very much for your help and information on this piece. The photo that you added will also be of great help to me in identification of anything that I might stumble across in the future. This spear seems to be a real puzzler and I can only hope that after it arrives and I can post more information on the dimensions and some better photos that someone might be able to identify its origin. Again, thank you for your help.


Best,
Robert

[Robert]

I have added two more photos from the auction. I do not know if they will be of anymore help than the others have been with the identification of this piece but they can't hurt either.

Best,
Robert

[colin henshaw]

Could be Northern Phillipines - see "In the Shape of Tradition" by E M Anderson, pages 344 & 345 for spears with a fairly similar iron collar and blade form.

Was it sourced in USA ? - then Phillipines become more of a likelihood...

[Robert]

Thank you Colin. Unfortunately I do not have the book that you have mentioned. Do you by any chance have access to the photo you are referring to where you could post a copy of it here? To answer your question, yes this was sourced here in the U.S. Now that you mention it the general blade shape does remind me of a hinalung I once saw a photo of with the same protrusions at the base of the blade.

Best,
Robert

[Sajen]

I think that your spear is more recent like the ones I have showed some time ago: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=halmahera
I still think that your spear is from SEA, Indonesia or like Colin suggested the Phils.

Regards,

Detlef

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by Robert

Thank you Colin. Unfortunately I do not have the book that you have mentioned. Do you by any chance have access to the photo you are referring to where you could post a copy of it here? To answer your question, yes this was sourced here in the U.S. Now that you mention it the general blade shape does remind me of a hinalung I once saw a photo of with the same protrusions at the base of the blade.

Best,
Robert

Here are a couple of images from the book (hope OK regarding copyright). Apologies for poor picture quality as they were taken in artificial light.

Regards
Colin

[Robert]

Yes Detlef, you very possibly could be right about the age of this piece. I have always found it a good practice on the items that I purchase from photos to not decide on age until they arrive. I have seen item in photos that look to have good age to them only to find when they finally arrive that they were of quite recent manufacture and complete junk, while at the same time I have had others that looked almost new that upon later inspection were found to be of good age and were just very well taken care of over the years. By the way, I really like the spears that you shared in the link you posted here. Very nice items for any collection.

Best,
Robert

[carlos]

Congratulation with this adquisition, beatiful spear !!
My first imprexxion was could be from Philippines, Bontoc more exactly.
best regards
carlos

[VANDOO]

THE CLOSEST I CAN COME TO IT SO FAR IS NIAS BUT I WILL LOOK AT MY NAGA PICTURES AS I SEEM TO REMEMBER SOMETHING SIMULAR THERE. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF NIAS SPEARS. 1. PICTURE OF NIAS WARRIOR SPEAR IS TURNED SIDEWAYS BUT LOOKS SIMULAR. 2 OLD SHIELD AND SPEAR SHOWING AGE AND SILVER FERULE. 3. NEWER SPEAR SHIELD AND SWORD SET APPEARS TO HAVE IRON FERULE AND IS LESS ORNATE.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Could be Northern Phillipines - see "In the Shape of Tradition" by E M Anderson, pages 344 & 345 for spears with a fairly similar iron collar and blade form.

Was it sourced in USA ? - then Phillipines become more of a likelihood...

Bontoc spears look different, special at the collar, here for comparison the examples from my collection.

[Robert]

I would like to start by first thanking everyone for their help with this unusual and perplexing spear and apologies for not replying until now. The wife and I went out last night and after a few to many drinks AFTER returning home I did sleep in rather late this morning. Someone needs to add a hangover smiley to the rest of the ones we have.
A good friend has suggested to me that this spear is from French Indochina, and is a traditional piece to the more tribal areas of Laos bordering Vietnam. I have used this information and been able to find more spears with the exact style and placement of metal banding on their shafts as this one. Unfortunately they are all for sale so photos of them cannot be posted. If anyone has any reference to spears from this area that they could share with me it would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Robert

[Robert]

I thought that I would bring this thread back up to see if anyone might have found any new information on this that might help to identify its place of origin or if possibly one of our newer members might have any information about this spear that they might like to add. Not being able to correctly identify and give a positive place of origin to this has been maddening.

Best,
Robert

[Sajen]

Hello Robert,

I just received a mail from a friend in Great Britain who is an expert for the weapons from mainland SEA, he have seen your thread and this is what he write me: This spear is from the Tonkin area in North Vietnam and can be found also in areas from Laos. The two rings are a simple way to hold the tang in place and typical for this spears.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Robert]

Detlef, Thank you and your British friend. I think I know who he might be, but I lost his email address the last time my email host crashed their system and have been slowly adding them back as I find them. So does he know if this might possibly be a Montagnard spear?

Best,
Robert

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Robert

Detlef, Thank you and your British friend. I think I know who he might be, but I lost his email address the last time my email host crashed their system and have been slowly adding them back as I find them. So does he know if this might possibly be a Montagnard spear?

Best,
Robert

Hello Robert,

will ask him later at the day, it's very early at the morning here.

Regards,
Detlef

[Robert]

Thank you Detlef. I'm looking forward to what his answer is.

Best,
Robert