African, that's all I know

Freddy · 22nd September 2005, 07:24 PM

I found this African sword last week. I tried to find it's origin, but I can use some help.

This sword has a sheath made from animal hide. The shape is a bit peculiar. The stitching on the front reminds me of sheaths from Cameroon.
The wooden handle has two stylized heads. The blade itself is simple and not very sharp. The point is peculiar.

I just can't find a picture of a sword with a similar shape.

Total length (in sheath) : 62,5 cm
Length of sword : 51,5 cm
Length of handle : 14,5 cm
Lenght of blade : 37 cm

Tim Simmons · 22nd September 2005, 07:46 PM

Hi Freddy, well it is certainly African and it looks Cameroon . It looks fairly recent and made to work, somehow I always think of todays Africans armed with AK47s and old ww2 guns, bayonets , or industrial machete. Tim

Freddy · 22nd September 2005, 08:05 PM

You might be right, Tim.

Perhaps swords like this one are only used to 'dress up', if you know what I mean. Used by old men, going out on Sunday. Just like my grandfather : he always wore a hat on Sundays.

Freddy

Tim Simmons · 22nd September 2005, 08:08 PM

Yes good thing though.

Tim

zalmoxis · 23rd September 2005, 02:00 AM

I think it is an old Bali tribe blade modified with a newer handle.The handle looks like a Bali one. I think Tim is right about being from Cameroon.

RobT · 23rd September 2005, 03:30 AM

Hi Freddy,
I know this is going to sound crazy but could that strange point be what was once the tang of a Congolese crescent tipped sword as shown in Stone's figure 459 photo number 21 (page 365). Just imagine that blade without the tips inserted into your hilt.
Sincerely,
RobT

Freddy · 23rd September 2005, 10:09 AM

Hi Robt,

I don't think it's mounted backwards. In the past, I had some African sword blades without handle and I noticed that they had a tang which was much slimmer.

Also, if you look at African swords you will see that the tang goes through the handle and is then hammered into it. This is to secure the handle tightly to the blade.

This wouldn't be possible with the point of my sword as it only measures about 5 cm.

Jim McDougall · 25th September 2005, 06:36 AM

I am inclined to feel this interesting item is from Zaire, mostly due to the stylized zoomorphic faces of rudimentary geometric design on the prongs of the hilt, as well as the blade shape. The blade seems to correspond to the profiled 'court sword' blade forms often seen on swords of Zaire regions, and seems to have considerably more age than of course the hilt. Although no distinct matches for the hilt were found in the references I checked, there was one hilt with dual prongs, but more closely formed like horns. This was stated to be from Zaire also c.1935 ("Beaute Fatale" p.238, #458).
Most interesting was an asymmetric form as seen on the scabbard shown as from Tshokwe regions of Zaire (c.1920), which are located in southwest Zaire near Angola borders (ibid. p.79).
While these suggestions are clearly free association based, they do seem plausible .

As always, the diffusion of these weapons have no geographic boundaries and as this item seems to be an older blade more recently remounted, it would be difficult to assign a specific region with certainty. I am curious though about the Cameroon suggestion, any references that might direct to their weapons being similar to this one? All I can seem to find is references to thier throwing knives.

Best regards,
Jim

22nd September 2005, 07:24 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	African, that's all I know I found this African sword last week. I tried to find it's origin, but I can use some help. This sword has a sheath made from animal hide. The shape is a bit peculiar. The stitching on the front reminds me of sheaths from Cameroon. The wooden handle has two stylized heads. The blade itself is simple and not very sharp. The point is peculiar. I just can't find a picture of a sword with a similar shape. Total length (in sheath) : 62,5 cm Length of sword : 51,5 cm Length of handle : 14,5 cm Lenght of blade : 37 cm

23rd September 2005, 03:30 AM	#6
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 465	Mounted Backwards? Hi Freddy, I know this is going to sound crazy but could that strange point be what was once the tang of a Congolese crescent tipped sword as shown in Stone's figure 459 photo number 21 (page 365). Just imagine that blade without the tips inserted into your hilt. Sincerely, RobT

22nd September 2005, 07:46 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,755	Hi Freddy, well it is certainly African and it looks Cameroon . It looks fairly recent and made to work, somehow I always think of todays Africans armed with AK47s and old ww2 guns, bayonets , or industrial machete. Tim

22nd September 2005, 08:05 PM	#3
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	You might be right, Tim. Perhaps swords like this one are only used to 'dress up', if you know what I mean. Used by old men, going out on Sunday. Just like my grandfather : he always wore a hat on Sundays. Freddy

22nd September 2005, 08:08 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,755	Yes good thing though. Tim

23rd September 2005, 02:00 AM	#5
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	I think it is an old Bali tribe blade modified with a newer handle.The handle looks like a Bali one. I think Tim is right about being from Cameroon.

23rd September 2005, 10:09 AM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Hi Robt, I don't think it's mounted backwards. In the past, I had some African sword blades without handle and I noticed that they had a tang which was much slimmer. Also, if you look at African swords you will see that the tang goes through the handle and is then hammered into it. This is to secure the handle tightly to the blade. This wouldn't be possible with the point of my sword as it only measures about 5 cm.

25th September 2005, 06:36 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,836	I am inclined to feel this interesting item is from Zaire, mostly due to the stylized zoomorphic faces of rudimentary geometric design on the prongs of the hilt, as well as the blade shape. The blade seems to correspond to the profiled 'court sword' blade forms often seen on swords of Zaire regions, and seems to have considerably more age than of course the hilt. Although no distinct matches for the hilt were found in the references I checked, there was one hilt with dual prongs, but more closely formed like horns. This was stated to be from Zaire also c.1935 ("Beaute Fatale" p.238, #458). Most interesting was an asymmetric form as seen on the scabbard shown as from Tshokwe regions of Zaire (c.1920), which are located in southwest Zaire near Angola borders (ibid. p.79). While these suggestions are clearly free association based, they do seem plausible . As always, the diffusion of these weapons have no geographic boundaries and as this item seems to be an older blade more recently remounted, it would be difficult to assign a specific region with certainty. I am curious though about the Cameroon suggestion, any references that might direct to their weapons being similar to this one? All I can seem to find is references to thier throwing knives. Best regards, Jim