Too Tiny?

[A.alnakkas]

Hey guys,

This is my first go on a Moro item. I always wanted one, but either was too broke or never had the balls to buy one, didnt want to screw up :P

But it seems that I may have screwed up. I bought this Gunong on ebay, it was a hastey purchase for little cash and I thought its about time. Was shocked when it arrived! it was so tiny my guess its some letter opener? such a shame if it is, the blade is made of nice steel.

The blade is 4.5 inches long, the full length is 6.5 inches.

[David]

Nope...don't think it's a letter opener...
Some gunongs are, indeed a little on the small side, those yours does seem pretty small. Perhaps it was made for a woman or a child. Do the fittings seem to be silver? Is the pommel ivory? It almost looks a bit like clam shell, which would probably be rarer than ivory, but i can't tell from the photos.
Your blade looks like it isn't laminated, but i would give it a light etch with vinegar to be sure.
Bottom line, i would say that you did not screw up, unless you paid a great deal of money for this.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by David

Nope...don't think it's a letter opener...
Some gunongs are, indeed a little on the small side, those yours does seem pretty small. Perhaps it was made for a woman or a child. Do the fittings seem to be silver? Is the pommel ivory? It almost looks a bit like clam shell, which would probably be rarer than ivory, but i can't tell from the photos.
Your blade looks like it isn't laminated, but i would give it a light etch with vinegar to be sure.
Bottom line, i would say that you did not screw up, unless you paid a great deal of money for this.

Hey David!

Sounds good I guess. Will give it an etch soon and see whats on the blade. I thought the pommel is bone, now its dark so will get some zooms on it tommorow!

Didnt pay much, compared to my usual field :P

[David]

It seems a bit too white for bone, but photos can be deceptive with colors sometimes.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by David

Nope...don't think it's a letter opener...
Some gunongs are, indeed a little on the small side, those yours does seem pretty small. Perhaps it was made for a woman or a child. Do the fittings seem to be silver? Is the pommel ivory? It almost looks a bit like clam shell, which would probably be rarer than ivory, but i can't tell from the photos.
Your blade looks like it isn't laminated, but i would give it a light etch with vinegar to be sure.
Bottom line, i would say that you did not screw up, unless you paid a great deal of money for this.

Perhaps the straight blade and small size saw it used with Betal nut?

[Battara]

Other possibility: it is an early form. Not sure, but smaller forms with out lots of lamination were indicative of earlier forms.

Wish there was more information on these.

I agree though is was not a waste of money.

[Andrew]

Agree w/David--looks like the color of ivory to me.

Was/is betel chewing regularly practiced in the PIs?

Reminds me of the Thai/Burmese "priest knives", but that's really just based on size...

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

Other possibility: it is an early form. Not sure, but smaller forms with out lots of lamination were indicative of earlier forms.

I think we all wish there was more info on these blades.
From the more bulbous pommel form it would seem it is not an "older" form. The metal work looks fairly nice, but i would still be interested in knowing if it is silver or some other white metal.
...and that would be a yes AFAIK Andrew....betel nut does indeed have a history of use in the Philippines.

[Indianajones]

Will give it my 'go'; not a bad buy would my humble opinion be. The pommel does look like ivory (think too thick mass to be bone) and so white because its 'bleached' by sun n age (and not being handled much). Am wondering what kind of ivory.

Blade may indeed be bit on the simple side, but one cant have it all on one piece, can we?! To my opinion not specifically an early piece as than they would not have used so much silver/metalwork on the sheath (the more early, the rarer metal/silver).
<for betelnut one rather need a more hacking sort of blade as these nuts are hard to crack. Dagger has little use with them>

All in all a nice honest little gunong with a ivory pommel. Sometimes small can also be a plus! Congratulations I would say!
Buy two more and you'l have a collection of them . . .

[A.alnakkas]

Thanks all! am really glad that my first Moro purchase is not that bad hehe

[T. Koch]

It could indeed be dirty ivory, but the grey-ish areas of the hilt suggest bone to me. These areas would be some of the outer grain of the spongiose core tissue. Ivory is much more solid and usually whiter and the material has a more 'live' glow. Hard to explain, but a focused picture of the handle surface should be able to decide it.

Very cool little knife in all regards. I've never personally seen a gunong in hand, so I am also surprised by the size. I like it even better now that I know that it is so small - such a great little stabber!

Thanks for sharing!


Best wishes, - Thor

[A.alnakkas]

Hey guys!

Here are zooms on the hilt. Going to etch the blade whenever am free.

The fittings seem to be silver but cant be sure.

[David]

I looks like it might be Tridacna (giant clam shell).
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=clam+shell

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by David

I looks like it might be Tridacna (giant clam shell).
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=clam+shell

Hey David,

Hilt is abit transclucent.

Does transclucency mean anything?

[Rick]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey David,

Hilt is abit transclucent.

Does transclucency mean anything?

Lofty, tap the handle against your tooth; if it feels like stone, it's Tridacna .

[Indianajones]

Does indeed look like tridacna at first; but look at the fine (greyish) hairline at one side (first close up). >judging purely on pictures can be hard as when touching one would know it instantly<
Although I suggested ivory first I think -seen those brown specles on the other side- it is bone. I guess carabaubone could be thick enough on certain boneplaces to make a hilt out of as such.
The silver would be an alloy with silver and nickle in it.

[David R]

Looks a nice well made piece to me, sometimes small is beautifull. Does NOT look like a paper knife or other tourist piece.

[Robert]

A.alnakkas, try polishing the hilt with a little wax using a piece of medium textured cloth like a wash cloth and see what happens. If it is shell it will look like mother of pearl when polished and if bone or ivory it will help bring out the graining so to help in identifying which it might be. A very nice item regardless of hilt material, my congratulation on your new acquisition.

Regards,
Robert

[Battara]

Originally Posted by David

From the more bulbous pommel form it would seem it is not an "older" form.

I forgot about that - very good point. I agree that this is a big indication of being a circa 1930s piece.

Also the more I look at this the more I am inclined to agree that this may be clam shell.

[T. Koch]

My vote still goes for bone, although I guess, it theoretically could be from the outer layers of the clamshell, where the material is more mottled and of lesser quality. In my experience though, craftsmen usually take from nearer the center, where the shell is harder and more compact.
An example would be these Japanese Go-stones, also carved from some unknown Tridacna-species:



- and yes, I am aware that these pictured, are expensive über high-end stones, but they serve to illustrate that purity is an ideal when it comes to worked clamshell.

Rick's suggestion is good IMO. If the handle feels hard, cold and stone-like to the touch, it's probably Tridacna-shell. If you could carefully burn some unexposed part of the hilt, you would quickly be able to determine whether the material is organic or mineral.

*Wouter* I agree with you, but I'm sceptical about the source being caribou though. Unless of course you're referring to the epic 18th century Moro-raid on Santa's Sleigh? It was a massacre... Antler, red noses and little elf limbs everywhere...
Don't you think it's more likely to be from sambar deer or something likewise more local?


Best wishes, - Thor

[Robert]

Thor, I believe that Wouter is referring to carabao/water buffalo bone not caribou though an 18th century Moro-raid on Santa's Sleigh could have produced some unique hilt materials.

Robert

[Sajen]

Look indeed like Tridacna but like Wouter write is the hairline crack is a little bit unusual but could be possible. Like Rick write it is a good test to test the hardness of the material additional have Tridacna a cold feel while bone have a more warm feel like ivory. BTW, nice little gunong.

Regards,

Detlef

[A.alnakkas]

Hey guys thanks!

Well I dont know how stone feels if I would touch it with my teeth, not exactly something I do usually lol and kinda frightened from putting an item held by probably lots of people in my mouth:P

Though the temprature test is more viable, especially today since my AC broken (just fixed it, hoorai!) so room was pretty hot. Surprisingly the item was cold to touch while my other items next to it (all had wooden hilts) were room temprature hot.

Lotfy

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey guys thanks!

Well I dont know how stone feels if I would touch it with my teeth, not exactly something I do usually lol and kinda frightened from putting an item held by probably lots of people in my mouth:P

Though the temprature test is more viable, especially today since my AC broken (just fixed it, hoorai!) so room was pretty hot. Surprisingly the item was cold to touch while my other items next to it (all had wooden hilts) were room temprature hot.

Lotfy

Hi mate,

when it feel cold by touch it is most probable Tridacna, the cold feel is typical. Rare material, concrats!

BTW, I am green with envy about the temperature at your home, here in Germany it becomes cold!

Regards,

Detlef

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi mate,

when it feel cold by touch it is most probable Tridacna, the cold feel is typical. Rare material, concrats!

BTW, I am green with envy about the temperature at your home, here in Germany it becomes cold!

Regards,

Detlef

Thanks Detlef Wow lol and I thought I had a bad purchase :P

Trust me, you dont want a room reaching 35 degrees. Its 45 degrees outside, certainly lower than a few months ago when it reached as high as 56.

Lotfy

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Thanks Detlef Wow lol and I thought I had a bad purchase :P

Trust me, you dont want a room reaching 35 degrees. Its 45 degrees outside, certainly lower than a few months ago when it reached as high as 56.

Lotfy

No, I don't need 45 degrees outside, but we have had 10 in the early morning and now only 15, too cold for me!

Detlef

[Indianajones]

I feel this 'material issue' is coming to a climax . . . . .! he he. On top of that I may come back from my opinion of it being bone as, when I look again at the pics- it could indeed be also tridacna.
Indeed I was not reverring to Santa's reindeer Thor but to the Philippine waterbuffalo called 'carabau' (as common with Phil. culture n items I assumed others know this term too).

Difficult to give directions/advise on this matter; can only say tridacna is like marblestone and bone would be alike very hard ebonywood (to give material comparisson).
Howabout this; tap the handle on glas n when it says 'TOK TOK' it is tridacna n when it does 'POK POK' its bone . . . . .
(not much of advise is it . .?!?!?)

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

Indeed I was not reverring to Santa's reindeer Thor but to the Philippine waterbuffalo called 'carabau' (as common with Phil. culture n items I assumed others know this term too).

I know this term as well, in Indonesia spelling/writing it is : kerbau

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

Difficult to give directions/advise on this matter; can only say tridacna is like marblestone and bone would be alike very hard ebonywood (to give material comparisson).
Howabout this; tap the handle on glas n when it says 'TOK TOK' it is tridacna n when it does 'POK POK' its bone . . . . .
(not much of advise is it . .?!?!?)

Hi Wouter,
I think the cold feel in hand is a certain indication, isn't it?

[A.alnakkas]

Detlef, I would love a 15C temperature haha! cant wait for winter.

Wouter, I tapped the hilt on a glass and it made a TOK sound. Was Tridacna used for bigger Moro stuff?