Turkish Blunderbuss/Translation Needed

rickystl · 8th September 2012, 09:34 PM

Hello Everyone. This is a new addition to my collection. I am pretty sure this is a Turkish made Blunderbuss pistol, probably from the early 19th Century. When you look at the photos the barrel looks like it could be brass. But it is not. It's iron. And a magnet readily sticks to it. The lock works perfectly. There are a couple old breaks in the stock - at the wrist and mid barrel that were repaired OK a long time ago. The only real problem is the trigger guard is broke and missing.

The trigger guard and but plate are brass CASTINGS - not sheet brass. I can see small evidence of solder on the rear trigger guard finial. It was likely an attempt to repair the guard at some point in the past. But the previous owner said he's never seen the guard. He is 69 and said his Father has always owned it without the guard. However, he is in the process of moving, so maybe it will turn up?

I can only hope.
Anyway, there seems to be a signature on the barrel and barrel tang. I was hoping someone on the Forum could translate it? I've posted the signatures in both directions since I'm not sure how to read them. Any translation help much appreciated. I have more photos if anyone is interested. Thanks, Rick.

Atlantia · 8th September 2012, 10:48 PM

Nice! That does look like fun.

Dom · 9th September 2012, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Any translation help much appreciated. I have more photos if anyone is interested. Thanks, Rick.

Hi Rick
my comments will be for the translations only
that Blunderbuss pistol, may confuse me about his originality as a weapon
might be a "navy gun"?, or more prosaically, a weapon of decor, I dunno

back to translation, it's done

- MASHALLAH either WHAT EVER ALLAH (GOD) WILL'
- AMAL MOUSSA ATTA either MADE BY MOUSSA ATTA

all the best

à +

Dom

Dom · 9th September 2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Rick
my comments will be for the translations only
that Blunderbuss pistol, may confuse me about his originality as a weapon
might be a "navy gun"?, or more prosaically, a weapon of decor, I dunno

Hi Rick
GOOD NEWS

... it's NOT a "weapon of decor", it's a real

origine should be from Balkans, decorated in Ottoman style, it's a;
- "KNEE" pistols
- dated 1st quarter of 19th century

here attached a pic, the pistol it's not mine, otherwise,
I would given you the correct information directly

but with help of Google for instance, you'll find
sorry to have put you in a cold sweat

all the best

à +

Dom

rickystl · 10th September 2012, 01:04 AM

Hi Dom !! Thank you so much for your reply and translation. I very much appreciate it. It's always good to be able to identify the maker of the gun.

I agree with you, this pistol was likely made in the Balkans - for the Turkish market. It's definately not a "tourist" made item. It has a good quality, heavy made iron barrel. The lock is made much better than most I've seen. Close to European standards. I can tell this gun has been fired in the past. Wish the trigger guard was not missing.

Here are some more photos. Other than the missing trigger guard, I am very happy with this specimen. Again, thank you for the translation!!

Rick.

Dom · 10th September 2012, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

... It's definately not a "tourist" made item. ... Wish the trigger guard was not missing.

.

Hi Rick
if there was not this trigger guard missing, it's nearly perfect

especially at evidence, your "knee" pistol is without further tweaking

why not to envisage a restoration ?
especially as you have enough remaining pieces to know what had been the decor

all the best

à +

Dom

rickystl · 10th September 2012, 03:22 PM

Hi Dom. I was thinking exactly that. I could purchase a new cast brass trigger guard and have it cut, engraved, and aged close to the original. And, I know just the gunsmith that can do this. I don't think it will really depreciate the value of the gun in this case, as long as the work is professionally done. Others may dis-agree? I will have to search my library and the Internet for the shape/size of the trigger guard. The photo you provided helps. Thanks again, Rick.

rickystl · 30th March 2013, 07:21 PM

BUMP!

I've heard it said that patience is its own reward. Trigger guard restoration now complete. And you guys won't believe my luck in finding this trigger guard. The new (old!) trigger guard is from an original Balkan/Turkish blunderbuss that had a worm-eaten and destroyed stock. The new (old) guard was fitted to the existing mortise. And since the new guard was from the same type of pistol, from the same time period, the patina of the brass is a perfect match. The nails were hand made. I did not try to have the guard engraved similar to the old one as I did not want to risk altering the original patina. Anyway, I thought this restoration turned out very well. You would never know the new guard did not originally come with the gun. Here are some photos with the new (old!) guard. Thanks for looking. Rick.

Robert · 30th March 2013, 09:02 PM

Rick, what great luck you have had in being able to find an original trigger guard for this. Personally seeing as you have the original pieces for a pattern I think that many would have opted to have the new one engraved to match the rest of the guns original decoration. I know that there are restorers out there that could match the patina up again after the engraving had been done. Leaving it as is though has its own merits too, the main one being saving money. If this was mine I do believe that I would have made the same decision that you have, but only for the reason to save funds for my next potential purchase.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 30th March 2013, 10:13 PM

Hello Rick, great luck and very nice restauration and great looking blunderbuss.

Regards,

Detlef

rickystl · 31st March 2013, 05:03 PM

Hi Robert. Thanks for your reply. The Engraver that would do this has had over 20 years experience engraving firearms. Primarily muzzle loading firearms. He mentioned that it would not make any difference if the trigger guard was mounted on the gun, or not. So, that left me the option of having it engraved latter should I decide to. Of course having the original guard finials makes the engraving job much easier since he knows what it is supposed to look like. This way he does not have to surf through all kinds of reference books searching for the right look.
Here are pics of the original engraved guard finials. Note on one end of the rear finial is a piece of solder. Hmmmmm. This leads me to believe that at some point in the past someone tried to fix - the rest of the missing guard?? But the guy I bought the gun from said he has never seen the rest of the guard. Even as a young boy. By coincidence the guy I bought the gun from was in the process of moving. So I offered him a reward if he found the missing piece.
Well, that's the story.

Rick.

rickystl · 31st March 2013, 05:05 PM

Hi Sajen. Thanks for the kind comments. Yes, I'm real happy with the results. And what luck finding this trigger guard. Rick.

8th September 2012, 09:34 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Turkish Blunderbuss/Translation Needed Hello Everyone. This is a new addition to my collection. I am pretty sure this is a Turkish made Blunderbuss pistol, probably from the early 19th Century. When you look at the photos the barrel looks like it could be brass. But it is not. It's iron. And a magnet readily sticks to it. The lock works perfectly. There are a couple old breaks in the stock - at the wrist and mid barrel that were repaired OK a long time ago. The only real problem is the trigger guard is broke and missing. The trigger guard and but plate are brass CASTINGS - not sheet brass. I can see small evidence of solder on the rear trigger guard finial. It was likely an attempt to repair the guard at some point in the past. But the previous owner said he's never seen the guard. He is 69 and said his Father has always owned it without the guard. However, he is in the process of moving, so maybe it will turn up? I can only hope. Anyway, there seems to be a signature on the barrel and barrel tang. I was hoping someone on the Forum could translate it? I've posted the signatures in both directions since I'm not sure how to read them. Any translation help much appreciated. I have more photos if anyone is interested. Thanks, Rick. Attached Images

10th September 2012, 01:04 AM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Dom !! Thank you so much for your reply and translation. I very much appreciate it. It's always good to be able to identify the maker of the gun. I agree with you, this pistol was likely made in the Balkans - for the Turkish market. It's definately not a "tourist" made item. It has a good quality, heavy made iron barrel. The lock is made much better than most I've seen. Close to European standards. I can tell this gun has been fired in the past. Wish the trigger guard was not missing. Here are some more photos. Other than the missing trigger guard, I am very happy with this specimen. Again, thank you for the translation!! Rick. Attached Images

30th March 2013, 07:21 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	BUMP! I've heard it said that patience is its own reward. Trigger guard restoration now complete. And you guys won't believe my luck in finding this trigger guard. The new (old!) trigger guard is from an original Balkan/Turkish blunderbuss that had a worm-eaten and destroyed stock. The new (old) guard was fitted to the existing mortise. And since the new guard was from the same type of pistol, from the same time period, the patina of the brass is a perfect match. The nails were hand made. I did not try to have the guard engraved similar to the old one as I did not want to risk altering the original patina. Anyway, I thought this restoration turned out very well. You would never know the new guard did not originally come with the gun. Here are some photos with the new (old!) guard. Thanks for looking. Rick. Attached Images

31st March 2013, 05:03 PM	#11
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Robert. Thanks for your reply. The Engraver that would do this has had over 20 years experience engraving firearms. Primarily muzzle loading firearms. He mentioned that it would not make any difference if the trigger guard was mounted on the gun, or not. So, that left me the option of having it engraved latter should I decide to. Of course having the original guard finials makes the engraving job much easier since he knows what it is supposed to look like. This way he does not have to surf through all kinds of reference books searching for the right look. Here are pics of the original engraved guard finials. Note on one end of the rear finial is a piece of solder. Hmmmmm. This leads me to believe that at some point in the past someone tried to fix - the rest of the missing guard?? But the guy I bought the gun from said he has never seen the rest of the guard. Even as a young boy. By coincidence the guy I bought the gun from was in the process of moving. So I offered him a reward if he found the missing piece. Well, that's the story. Rick. Attached Images

8th September 2012, 10:48 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Nice! That does look like fun.

10th September 2012, 03:22 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Dom. I was thinking exactly that. I could purchase a new cast brass trigger guard and have it cut, engraved, and aged close to the original. And, I know just the gunsmith that can do this. I don't think it will really depreciate the value of the gun in this case, as long as the work is professionally done. Others may dis-agree? I will have to search my library and the Internet for the shape/size of the trigger guard. The photo you provided helps. Thanks again, Rick.

30th March 2013, 09:02 PM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Rick, what great luck you have had in being able to find an original trigger guard for this. Personally seeing as you have the original pieces for a pattern I think that many would have opted to have the new one engraved to match the rest of the guns original decoration. I know that there are restorers out there that could match the patina up again after the engraving had been done. Leaving it as is though has its own merits too, the main one being saving money. If this was mine I do believe that I would have made the same decision that you have, but only for the reason to save funds for my next potential purchase. Best, Robert

30th March 2013, 10:13 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Hello Rick, great luck and very nice restauration and great looking blunderbuss. Regards, Detlef

31st March 2013, 05:05 PM	#12
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Sajen. Thanks for the kind comments. Yes, I'm real happy with the results. And what luck finding this trigger guard. Rick.