Dukun keris & other keris esoterica

Jussi M. · 16th August 2012, 11:34 PM

Greetings,

Probably the title I chose is an oxymoron of sorts as is not pretty much everything to do with the keris a bit esoteric ?

Anyway, whilst all kerises are by definition (as in not keris like objects) unusual in their singularity, there are some that are more unusual than most. I gather this dress would pass as esoteric?

Word is free.

Thanks,

J.

Rick · 17th August 2012, 12:20 AM

This looks like a Kalimantan style dress .
Usually they are trade blades of little value .
The teeth are probably canine .

Jussi, could you upload the pictures to the site please .

VANDOO · 17th August 2012, 06:34 AM

YEP KALANMANTAN STYLE YOU ALSO SEE MANDAU, SHIELDS AND SPEARS FROM THE SAME AREA DECORATED UP LIKE THIS. MY BEST GUESS ON THE TEETH IS PERHAPS THE FRONT LOWER TEETH OF A COW OR WATER BUFFALOW. NOT DOG TEETH ON ANY OF MY EXAMPLES. BUT AS MENTIONED THE BLADES ARE NOT IN GOOD SHAPE ON MY TWO EXAMPLES AT LEAST. VERY BARBARIC LOOKING ITEMS WITH PAINT HAIR , BONES AND SUCH.

asomotif · 17th August 2012, 01:19 PM

I am not sure if esoteric is the correct name for this keris...

Here is a link to other weapons from the same production series.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...mandau+tourist

I have never seen a picture of someone wearing this style of weapons in a traditional/ tribal setting.
Unfortunately it is referred to as "Kalimantan" style.

Best regards,
Willem

VANDOO · 17th August 2012, 05:23 PM

SORRY ABOUT THE TERM KALAMANTAN STYLE

, IT CERTIANLY IS NOTHING LIKE WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY MADE BY THE INDIGINOUS TRIBES IN THE OLD DAYS. THAT JUST SEEMS TO BE THE LOCAL WHERE THESE ITEMS ARE BEING MADE.
I WONDER IF THESE ARE BEING MADE BY PEOPLE RELOCATED BY THE INDONESIAN GOVERNMENT TO KALAMANTAN? THEY DO LOOK LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE ORIGINATED IN BALI FOR THE TOURIST MARKET NOT A OLD TRADITIONAL DAYAK FORM AND DESIGN.
PLASTIC TEETH, I HAVE SEEN VERY REALISTIC SHARK TEETH MADE OF PLASTIC FOR SOME TIME BUT NEVER THOUGHT TO CHECK THESE COW OR PLASTI COW TEETH.

dbhmgb · 17th August 2012, 05:25 PM

A bit ago one similar to that popped up on eBay. I sent a PM to another forum member questioning the item. Thankfully, I was given a good education.

Henk · 17th August 2012, 08:23 PM

We discussed these kind of keris before.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=guinea
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=naga+sasra

By the way, what this guy in his best dress is doing? I don´t understand.

Rick · 18th August 2012, 01:22 AM

Disco Silat ?

Maurice · 18th August 2012, 06:25 AM

Aaaaahhh......
These things turn up everywhere!!!!

dbhmgb · 18th August 2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Disco Silat ?

Good one!

Jussi M. · 18th August 2012, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbhmgb

Good one!

A bit Miami Vice-esque, yeah. Same era. Here´s another for the more traditional minds amongst us

Anyway, you got any Dukun or other esoterica to share?

David · 18th August 2012, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jussi M.

A bit Miami Vice-esque, yeah. Same era. Here´s another for the more traditional minds amongst us

Anyway, you got any Dukun or other esoterica to share?

I don't see anything particularly "dukun" oriented in this image Jussi. Looks more martial art/silat related to me. What do you find esoteric about this image?

David · 18th August 2012, 10:59 PM

Here are a couple of more likely images of dukuns. They are traditional healers, shaman of a sort. Many dukuns are no doubt trained in the martial art of silat, but their use of the keris does not tend to be a martial one as depicted in your photograph above. Their craft involves trance and meditation as well as herbalism and spirit communication and exorcisms. They might bless your farm and your crops or practice divinations. A few have been know to practice the darker arts of malicious magic. But we are not likely to see any fine examples of keris in photographs of them at work. Here are a couple of shots, one older from the 1920s that shows no keris and a more recent shot, probably staged specifically for the photo.

Jussi M. · 18th August 2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't see anything particularly "dukun" oriented in this image Jussi. Looks more martial art/silat related to me. What do you find esoteric about this image?

Hello David. I guess me not being a native speaker of English plays a part herein. Sorry for that. No, I see nothing "Dukun" with the keris dress I showed but I do find it a bit unusual or out of the norm so to speak.

I just saw the Merriam Webster explanation for the word "esoteric" and it appears I made a poor choice of wording with the "esoteric". Should had been "odd". That being said lets play with both odd and esoteric. My initial idea had pretty much anything out of the ordinary in mind.

Sorry for the confusion

David · 19th August 2012, 01:49 AM

Well yes, that first series of photos is indeed "odd"...

Jussi M. · 19th August 2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well yes, that first series of photos is indeed "odd"...

I gather so. They are still pictures from an American Martial Art documentary made in 1982. The man pictured was an official representative of an Indonesian Pentjak Silat organization being interviewed. He was asked to show something for the camera. I gather that the hardware used in the filming - witnessed by these pictures - was brought to the scene by the organizers of the filming. Maybe. Anyway lets move forward. Please

Thanks,

J.

Caedo · 13th September 2012, 11:50 PM

I recognize those pictures. They are of Pendekar Eddie Jafri from his interview with Greg Alland. I wondered about all of the stuff hanging from his keris when I watched the video. I've never seen anything like it.

16th August 2012, 11:34 PM	#1
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	Dukun keris & other keris esoterica Greetings, Probably the title I chose is an oxymoron of sorts as is not pretty much everything to do with the keris a bit esoteric ? Anyway, whilst all kerises are by definition (as in not keris like objects) unusual in their singularity, there are some that are more unusual than most. I gather this dress would pass as esoteric? Word is free. Thanks, J. Attached Images Last edited by Jussi M.; 17th August 2012 at 07:44 AM.

18th August 2012, 10:59 PM	#13
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	Here are a couple of more likely images of dukuns. They are traditional healers, shaman of a sort. Many dukuns are no doubt trained in the martial art of silat, but their use of the keris does not tend to be a martial one as depicted in your photograph above. Their craft involves trance and meditation as well as herbalism and spirit communication and exorcisms. They might bless your farm and your crops or practice divinations. A few have been know to practice the darker arts of malicious magic. But we are not likely to see any fine examples of keris in photographs of them at work. Here are a couple of shots, one older from the 1920s that shows no keris and a more recent shot, probably staged specifically for the photo. Attached Images

17th August 2012, 12:20 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	This looks like a Kalimantan style dress . Usually they are trade blades of little value . The teeth are probably canine . Jussi, could you upload the pictures to the site please .

17th August 2012, 06:34 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YEP KALANMANTAN STYLE YOU ALSO SEE MANDAU, SHIELDS AND SPEARS FROM THE SAME AREA DECORATED UP LIKE THIS. MY BEST GUESS ON THE TEETH IS PERHAPS THE FRONT LOWER TEETH OF A COW OR WATER BUFFALOW. NOT DOG TEETH ON ANY OF MY EXAMPLES. BUT AS MENTIONED THE BLADES ARE NOT IN GOOD SHAPE ON MY TWO EXAMPLES AT LEAST. VERY BARBARIC LOOKING ITEMS WITH PAINT HAIR , BONES AND SUCH.

17th August 2012, 01:19 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	I am not sure if esoteric is the correct name for this keris... Here is a link to other weapons from the same production series. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...mandau+tourist I have never seen a picture of someone wearing this style of weapons in a traditional/ tribal setting. Unfortunately it is referred to as "Kalimantan" style. Best regards, Willem

17th August 2012, 05:23 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SORRY ABOUT THE TERM KALAMANTAN STYLE , IT CERTIANLY IS NOTHING LIKE WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY MADE BY THE INDIGINOUS TRIBES IN THE OLD DAYS. THAT JUST SEEMS TO BE THE LOCAL WHERE THESE ITEMS ARE BEING MADE. I WONDER IF THESE ARE BEING MADE BY PEOPLE RELOCATED BY THE INDONESIAN GOVERNMENT TO KALAMANTAN? THEY DO LOOK LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE ORIGINATED IN BALI FOR THE TOURIST MARKET NOT A OLD TRADITIONAL DAYAK FORM AND DESIGN. PLASTIC TEETH, I HAVE SEEN VERY REALISTIC SHARK TEETH MADE OF PLASTIC FOR SOME TIME BUT NEVER THOUGHT TO CHECK THESE COW OR PLASTI COW TEETH.

17th August 2012, 05:25 PM	#6
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	A bit ago one similar to that popped up on eBay. I sent a PM to another forum member questioning the item. Thankfully, I was given a good education.

17th August 2012, 08:23 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	We discussed these kind of keris before. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=guinea http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=naga+sasra By the way, what this guy in his best dress is doing? I don´t understand.

18th August 2012, 01:22 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Disco Silat ?

18th August 2012, 06:25 AM	#9
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,354	Aaaaahhh...... These things turn up everywhere!!!!

19th August 2012, 01:49 AM	#15
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,130	Well yes, that first series of photos is indeed "odd"...

13th September 2012, 11:50 PM	#17
Caedo Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 11	I recognize those pictures. They are of Pendekar Eddie Jafri from his interview with Greg Alland. I wondered about all of the stuff hanging from his keris when I watched the video. I've never seen anything like it.