African Or Tlingit Copper Dagger

[Tim Simmons]

Hi tomahawk,
I had a suspicion it was of the early 20th century. This might coincide with Edward Curtis and the revival of native culture in the NW. So we are still waiting for 'official' conformation. It would be really nice to know if it had origins in the 'old ways' I hope that makes sense. Tim

[tomahawk]

Hello Tim, I am suppose to hear something from a museum curator next week. Will let keep everyone udated.

tomahawk

[Jeff D]

Hi Tomahawk,

I have been lurking on this thread, as I am very interested in these Tlinget daggers. I have been able to examine these two in person ( http://www.cullodenantiques.com/atha...it_knifes.html ), and have found photos of many more.
These daggers are highly regarded by the Natives of the Pacific Northwest. I have had the oportunity to discuss these with a couple of elders from the Bella Coola and Interior plateau regions. Most immediately recognized them but only knew that they were associated with the "Northern tribes".
As has been discussed the blades were of copper even prior to contact with the Europeans. Eventually iron was used. The metals were obtained from beachcombing (wrecks, barrels etc), as well as trade. I have seen a couple from Sheffield trade blades as well as a converted russian bayonet. The workmanship is always spectacular. The form often has a central ridge, the cross section often is crecent shaped. I have not seen any with grooves as seen on yours.
The hilts are usually intricately carved mythological creatures usually of whale bone and occasionally of wood. The grip is usually wrapped sinew. I have never seen one attached in the manner that yours is.
These weapons are revered, and are handed down through the klan leaders. that is why the workmanship is always spectacular as you can see from the examples shown.
I think your dagger may represent an attempt to revive an old art form, but I would have serious reservations about the provenance that you were given.
All in all I think you have a neat object and if the price was acceptable it certainly deserves to be in a collection.

All the Best
Jeff

[tomahawk]

I received the following comments from a curator of a very respected Native American Indian Museum.

Interesting piece! I can't say fershure that it's Tlingit, nor even that
it's Native-made, but it certainly looks as if it's modeled on a traditional
Tlingit dagger. The workmanship on the blade is more crude than most of the
ones I've seen from the Skagway workshop, but I've seen images of
equally-crude Alaskan pieces clearly (and hastily, I think) made for the
tourist trade. I can't figure out about the copper, why it has all that
pitting in it - suspect it's some kind of commercial sheet copper but don't
know why it's so rough. ....

The pommel is strange - is it supposed to be copper also? It looks more
like carved horn or antler and, again, seems to be an attempt to look
Tlingit but whoever did it was far from masterful. It looks, in a weird
sort of way, like those Greenland masks that were collected in the 1920s or
1930s - there was an article about them in Arctic Anthropology but I can't
lay my hands on the citation. I guess, though, it's intended to be Tlingit
or at least Northwest Coast - the ears and the treatment of the nostrils in
particular kind of suggest that.

I couldn't begin to put a date on it - although, interestingly enough
there's a collection of Tlingit masks at Princeton that were acquired by
Sheldon Jackson in the 1880s and they're pretty poorly carved, painted with
bright enamel paints and then shellacked or something - When Erna Gunther
first examined them in the 1960s she remarked that it was astonishing that
so much bad work was being done so early.

Need I say that the blade is decorative only and would never have been
functional?

these are just my thoughts...

The last comment about Sheldon Jackson acquiring the Tlingit mask that are now at Princeton sort of ties in my provinance about this piece being acquired by Dr. Jackson in 1905.

tomahawak

[tomahawk]

Hello everyone I have another response from a curator from a Alaskan museum that reads as follows:

It’s been interesting doing some quick research on this dagger and I believe your other museum curator comments has it nailed down pretty good! And again, my bet is on something made for sale! Good luck!


So the final consensus is that it is more than likely a turn of the century Native art object made for sell to the tourist. I have read that during the turn of the century many westcoast tribes were in high gear making Native art (souvenirs) for the tourist coming from the states and even Europe. I want to thank everyone for their comments. Hope to have other interesting items in the future to post and discuss.

Thanks again!
tomahawk

[ashleyverplank]

I know these comments were made quite some time ago, but I just wanted to let you know for sure, without any doubt that this is NOT a Tlingit dagger, nor was it meant to represent one. I am writing my Master's Thesis on Tlingit daggers and am currently a Smithsonian Fellow, studying their entire collection. I have seen fakes and forgeries, but this is not even a close copy and it is definitely not one of the Skagway daggers. Specifically, the haft is all wrong, there is no formline or hint of formline and the shell inlay would be abalone, not mother of pearl. I could add many other things, so please let me know if you want more information. I just had to add my two cents.