Oakeshott type XVIIIb with recurved arms

cornelistromp · 3rd June 2012, 04:41 PM

I always have found one of the nicest types of sword the long stabbing 2 hands sword, with recurved arms of the cross, Oakeshott type XVIIIb.
These swords were found in the literature and drawings from 1425 to about 1520, for example drawn by Albrecht Dürer and Martin Schoengrauer, see drawing Schoengrauer from 1475.
Historical examples of this type of sword are Wallace A467, nr 11829 Cluny, and the famous sword from the Bavarian National Museum, Munich (XVIIIa.5 ROMs).
Also some pictures from a true fighting sword in my collection, ex Gottlob Herbert Bidermann collection.
The sword length is 124cm, water discovery with the original handle intact.

best,

Swordfish · 3rd June 2012, 06:35 PM

The sword in the Musee Cluny.

best

Swordfish · 3rd June 2012, 06:43 PM

And the sword in Munich.

Best

cornelistromp · 3rd June 2012, 08:54 PM

thanks and wallace A467

cornelistromp · 29th July 2012, 09:13 AM

Altar wings. The three holy kings. Painters: Masters of Oberägeri altar Oberägeri. Tempera on wood frame: Wood. 1493 Origin: Oberägeri (ZG), Church of St. Peter and Paul consecrated 1493 Dimensions: height 191 cm, width 134.5 cm. (AG-17) Lit: 'L. Wüthrich / M. Ruoss, Catalogue of Paintings, Swiss National Museum, Zurich 1996 ', number 36

fernando · 29th July 2012, 03:10 PM

Very nice ... both sword and painting.

cornelistromp · 30th July 2012, 09:35 PM

Thanks, Fernando

cornelistromp · 4th August 2012, 08:21 AM

German knights, black knights representing st maurice, wearing swords of the above mentioned type.

Axel-arrow · 16th February 2015, 10:10 PM

Hello!
What section pommel of this sword?

cornelistromp · 20th February 2015, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel-arrow

Hello!
What section pommel of this sword?

the pommel is a wheelpommel, oakeshott type H, with slight convex surfaces.

best,

cornelistromp · 21st February 2015, 11:35 AM

sword of post #1
Total length cm/ blade length cm /cross cm/bladewidth@cross mm/grip mm

124/97.5/21.0/33/190

best,
Jasper

bkp747 · 23rd February 2015, 04:18 AM

Fantastic sword, I'm amazed at the great condition, for a "water find". It still is beautiful!

cornelistromp · 23rd February 2015, 10:53 AM

actually for a waterfind the surface of this sword is somewhat oxidized.

In General, subject that there was no contact with the organic material, swords are better preserved under water than in the soil.

some come "as new" from the water after hundreds of years, fe some of the viking swords found in the river Ouse/UK in Records of the mediëval sword/Oakeshott, and other Ouse finds which have been in contact with organic material totally excavated.

for a very good water preserved sword, see for example:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9989

best,

Axel-arrow · 23rd February 2015, 05:28 PM

Many thanks for information on a sword!

batjka · 2nd March 2015, 12:56 AM

Thanks for posting this. As a student of longsword fencing I am very interested in these historic examples. Do you mind telling the sword's weight please?

cornelistromp · 2nd March 2015, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batjka

Thanks for posting this. As a student of longsword fencing I am very interested in these historic examples. Do you mind telling the sword's weight please?

I'm sorry, I can give you the weight until March 2016.
the sword is on loan to the Solingen Blade museum in Germany for an exhibition this year.

I guess somewhere around 800 grams.

best,

3rd June 2012, 06:35 PM	#2
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	The sword in the Musee Cluny. best Attached Images

3rd June 2012, 06:43 PM	#3
Swordfish Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	And the sword in Munich. Best Attached Images

3rd June 2012, 08:54 PM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	thanks and wallace A467 Attached Images

29th July 2012, 09:13 AM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Altar wings. The three holy kings. Painters: Masters of Oberägeri altar Oberägeri. Tempera on wood frame: Wood. 1493 Origin: Oberägeri (ZG), Church of St. Peter and Paul consecrated 1493 Dimensions: height 191 cm, width 134.5 cm. (AG-17) Lit: 'L. Wüthrich / M. Ruoss, Catalogue of Paintings, Swiss National Museum, Zurich 1996 ', number 36 Attached Images

4th August 2012, 08:21 AM	#8
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	German knights, black knights representing st maurice, wearing swords of the above mentioned type. Attached Images

3rd June 2012, 04:41 PM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Oakeshott type XVIIIb with recurved arms I always have found one of the nicest types of sword the long stabbing 2 hands sword, with recurved arms of the cross, Oakeshott type XVIIIb. These swords were found in the literature and drawings from 1425 to about 1520, for example drawn by Albrecht Dürer and Martin Schoengrauer, see drawing Schoengrauer from 1475. Historical examples of this type of sword are Wallace A467, nr 11829 Cluny, and the famous sword from the Bavarian National Museum, Munich (XVIIIa.5 ROMs). Also some pictures from a true fighting sword in my collection, ex Gottlob Herbert Bidermann collection. The sword length is 124cm, water discovery with the original handle intact. best, Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 3rd June 2012 at 04:54 PM.

29th July 2012, 03:10 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Very nice ... both sword and painting.

30th July 2012, 09:35 PM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Thanks, Fernando

16th February 2015, 10:10 PM	#9
Axel-arrow Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 6	question Hello! What section pommel of this sword?

21st February 2015, 11:35 AM	#11
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	sword of post #1 Total length cm/ blade length cm /cross cm/bladewidth@cross mm/grip mm 124/97.5/21.0/33/190 best, Jasper

23rd February 2015, 04:18 AM	#12
bkp747 Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 15	Fantastic sword, I'm amazed at the great condition, for a "water find". It still is beautiful!

23rd February 2015, 10:53 AM	#13
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	actually for a waterfind the surface of this sword is somewhat oxidized. In General, subject that there was no contact with the organic material, swords are better preserved under water than in the soil. some come "as new" from the water after hundreds of years, fe some of the viking swords found in the river Ouse/UK in Records of the mediëval sword/Oakeshott, and other Ouse finds which have been in contact with organic material totally excavated. for a very good water preserved sword, see for example: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9989 best,

23rd February 2015, 05:28 PM	#14
Axel-arrow Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 6	Many thanks for information on a sword!

2nd March 2015, 12:56 AM	#15
batjka Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 39	Thanks for posting this. As a student of longsword fencing I am very interested in these historic examples. Do you mind telling the sword's weight please?