Olive oil as a conservant.

Dmitry · 5th April 2012, 07:08 PM

Does anyone have photos before and after applications of olive oil? I'm interested in seeing the results after the said oil dries up and cakes up on the steel or iron.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th April 2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

Does anyone have photos before and after applications of olive oil? I'm interested in seeing the results after the said oil dries up and cakes up on the steel or iron.

Salaams Dmitry: Library has interesting discussion on the entire subject just type into forum search~ What kind of oil do you use for your blades?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Matchlock · 5th April 2012, 09:45 PM

Hi Dmitry,

I have used olive oil on iron surfaces for more than 30 years; unfortunately I did not take any before/after photos.

I can assure you though that the iron will feel a bit sticky for about six weeks but will be dry and stable afterwards. The only effect visible is a light yellowish color and a somewhat reduced iron shine.

I usually apply a new layer every two years using a linen cloth soaked with native olive oil. This way the iron will acquire a nice and stable light yellowish 'arsenal care' finish.

Best,
Michael

Dmitry · 5th April 2012, 09:46 PM

Salaams, Ibrahiim.
I have been using BreakFree CLP for years, and am very happy with its preservative and penetrating powers.
I've read that olive oil, when it dries, forms a very nice patina. I have some pieces that have been overcleaned by previous owners. I though perhaps olive oil could darken the surfaces to give them a look which corresponds to their age.

Matchlock · 5th April 2012, 09:50 PM

Hi Dmitry,

Our latest posts seem to have overlapped by seconds.

You are absolutely right about the effect of mellowing overcleaned surfaces.

Best,
Michael

Dmitry · 5th April 2012, 10:04 PM

Hi, Michael.
Yes, I just read your post.
Trouble is that I could only find refined extra virgin olive oil here. It's lighter in color than the unrefined one. I'll have to go into a different supermarket and see if they have the real stuff.

cannonmn · 6th April 2012, 01:37 PM

Many collectors in the USA and a number of the "experts" now voice a strong preference for applying wax to both edged weapons and firearms. Microcrystalline wax is preferred, one trade name is Renaissance Wax. Problem with oils that remain liquid is that they attract dust which then forms pinprick spots of corrosion as moisture is attracted. I have no knowledge of the use of olive oil, I don't think it is much used on arms here in USA.

I have a friend with an extensive "circa WWI" arms collection. He uses "bowling alley wax" on everything, wood, metal, etc. This is not microcrystalline wax but he prefers it, and it is readily-available (he says) and relatively cheap.

Dmitry · 6th April 2012, 03:13 PM

I am a strong opponent of applying wax.
Somehow these swords and guns made it to the 21st century after hundreds of years of not being waxed.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th April 2012, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

I am a strong opponent of applying wax.
Somehow these swords and guns made it to the 21st century after hundreds of years of not being waxed.

Salaams Dmitry, Loads of museums use renaissance wax so it is a recommended method ... I use plum oil which is in fact sewing machine oil... great for weapons with moving parts and blades etc..and once a month part of the cleaning routine on my stuff.
Olive oil works. There are some exotic indian hair oils that also get a good result as well ! Obviously in a damp environment it is more difficult and I always think keeping weapons out of scabbards is better .... Hope you find some decent olive oil ya

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Dmitry · 6th April 2012, 06:26 PM

I was somewhat partial to the wax, until I found out that it can be damaging to the object it's on. The moisture-repelling properties of a microcristalline wax, i.e. the Renaissance Wax have been overblown, it appears.
Here's an article from the Journal of the American Institute of Conservation, which casts serious doubts on the waxing.
http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic...35-01-001.html
Imho, the conservation product ideally must be easily removable. The wax appears to be incredibly difficult to remove, if the need arises.

Matchlock · 6th April 2012, 06:28 PM

Hi Dmitry and Ibrahiim,

It is true that microcrystalline way has established in museum conservation since at least 30 years. I too used it very often when working for museums.

Regarding those pieces I treated with microcrystalline wax some 30 years ago I cannot see any negative outcome, they are still rust free today.

I for my part, as I have often stated here, keep it with Dmitry sticking to the traditional conservation method by olive oil which has proved to preserve arms in arsenals for may hundreds of years.

Best,
Michael

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th April 2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Dmitry and Ibrahiim,

It is true that microcrystalline way has established in museum conservation since at least 30 years. I too used it very often when working for museums.

Regarding those pieces I treated with microcrystalline wax some 30 years ago I cannot see any negative outcome, they are still rust free today.

I for my part, as I have often stated here, keep it with Dmitry sticking to the traditional conservation method by olive oil which has proved to preserve arms in arsenals for may hundreds of years.

Best,
Michael

Salaams Matchlock~I agree however (and I use olive oil here because it seems to work well enough on my 150 or so weapons and its cheap and quick) renaissance wax wasn't available decades ago...so I wonder what they used then> Goosegrease?... they certainly used that on their arrows to reduce drag and pierce armour..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Dmitry · 6th April 2012, 06:40 PM

Again, our posts have crossed, Michael.
I once tried to remove the Ren.Wax from a blade. And I couldn't do it. I tried Acetone, a couple of commercial solvents, and still the white patches of wax wouldn't come off. Apparently it's possible to remove with special solvents, under lab conditions.

One might ask - why on Earth did you try to remove the wax?
Answer - I had put a very thin layer of it on a perfectly shiny nicely etched blade, and the sheen became dull, as the wax creeped into the miniscule pores in the metal, which were not evident to the naked eye.

Just my $.02..

Matchlock · 6th April 2012, 06:49 PM

Hi Dmitry,

This of course is the one question almost never asked: how can that wax be removed?

With the wax I used (it was mixed for me by a concervation company) I always succeeded rubbing it off with acetone. Sometimes I remember rubbing hard and trying several times, somtimes using a piece of wood soaked in acetone. To hear it does not work probably depends on the solvent originally used in your wax.

Anyway, warming the metal should get to wax our of those pittings as well.

If it does not, I suggest just ignoring it is there and applying a thick layer of olive oil above it. It should work.

Sadly I am not experienced in chemistry myself.

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 6th April 2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

Again, our posts have crossed, Michael.
I once tried to remove the Ren.Wax from a blade. And I couldn't do it. I tried Acetone, a couple of commercial solvents, and still the white patches of wax wouldn't come off. Apparently it's possible to remove with special solvents, under lab conditions.

One might ask - why on Earth did you try to remove the wax?
Answer - I had put a very thin layer of it on a perfectly shiny nicely etched blade, and the sheen became dull, as the wax creeped into the miniscule pores in the metal, which were not evident to the naked eye.

Just my $.02..

Renaissance wax can easily be removed with white spirit.(terpetine)

best,

Matchlock · 6th April 2012, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Renaissance wax can easily be removed with white spirit.(terpetine)

best,

Right, Jasper,

Provided that that was the solvent originally used I think ...

That's exactly what I was trying to refer to anyway.

Best,
Michael

Multumesc · 8th April 2012, 10:50 AM

It may well preserved with silicone oil for weapons.

broadaxe · 10th April 2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Multumesc

It may well preserved with silicone oil for weapons.

Indeed. What was done in the past is not necessarily good. Olive oil is NOT a good preservative, as it contains acids and water, and it hardens to a thick film that would jamm any fine mechanism.

fernando · 10th April 2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadaxe

... and it hardens to a thick film that would jamm any fine mechanism.

TimW · 10th April 2012, 09:47 PM

i would not use olive oil... could get rancid... i use ballistol on all my handmade knives.

broadaxe · 12th April 2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Olive oil hardens over the years, creates a thick layer that 'freezes' moving parts.

fernando · 12th April 2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadaxe

Olive oil hardens over the years, creates a thick layer that 'freezes' moving parts.

No harm for a sword, a polearm, a cuirasse or a non shooting antique firearm ... if indeed olive oil has the strenght to freeze mechanisms

Dmitry · 12th April 2012, 07:34 PM

I have just started the process of "olivification" with some store-bought olive oil on the hilt of this French non-comissioned officer's sword ca.1750. It was originally blackened [fer noirci], with only traces remaining around the inside of the shell.

Starting photo.

Will report back in a couple of months.

Matchlock · 14th April 2012, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadaxe

Olive oil hardens over the years, creates a thick layer that 'freezes' moving parts.

That's absolutely right; olive oil is definitely nor recommended for mechanical parts!!! It will freeze them.
The old-time recipe for them was either stone or bone oil. I too prefer Ballistol (a Lower Bavarian poduct, btw ...) for mechanics - and only for them.

Sorry for not mentioning this earlier but I understood the discussion was about outer surfaces.

Best,
Michael

5th April 2012, 07:08 PM	#1
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Olive oil as a conservant. Does anyone have photos before and after applications of olive oil? I'm interested in seeing the results after the said oil dries up and cakes up on the steel or iron.

5th April 2012, 09:45 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Dmitry, I have used olive oil on iron surfaces for more than 30 years; unfortunately I did not take any before/after photos. I can assure you though that the iron will feel a bit sticky for about six weeks but will be dry and stable afterwards. The only effect visible is a light yellowish color and a somewhat reduced iron shine. I usually apply a new layer every two years using a linen cloth soaked with native olive oil. This way the iron will acquire a nice and stable light yellowish 'arsenal care' finish. Best, Michael

5th April 2012, 09:46 PM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Salaams, Ibrahiim. I have been using BreakFree CLP for years, and am very happy with its preservative and penetrating powers. I've read that olive oil, when it dries, forms a very nice patina. I have some pieces that have been overcleaned by previous owners. I though perhaps olive oil could darken the surfaces to give them a look which corresponds to their age.

5th April 2012, 09:50 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Dmitry, Our latest posts seem to have overlapped by seconds. You are absolutely right about the effect of mellowing overcleaned surfaces. Best, Michael

5th April 2012, 10:04 PM	#6
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Hi, Michael. Yes, I just read your post. Trouble is that I could only find refined extra virgin olive oil here. It's lighter in color than the unrefined one. I'll have to go into a different supermarket and see if they have the real stuff.

6th April 2012, 01:37 PM	#7
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Many collectors in the USA and a number of the "experts" now voice a strong preference for applying wax to both edged weapons and firearms. Microcrystalline wax is preferred, one trade name is Renaissance Wax. Problem with oils that remain liquid is that they attract dust which then forms pinprick spots of corrosion as moisture is attracted. I have no knowledge of the use of olive oil, I don't think it is much used on arms here in USA. I have a friend with an extensive "circa WWI" arms collection. He uses "bowling alley wax" on everything, wood, metal, etc. This is not microcrystalline wax but he prefers it, and it is readily-available (he says) and relatively cheap.

6th April 2012, 03:13 PM	#8
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I am a strong opponent of applying wax. Somehow these swords and guns made it to the 21st century after hundreds of years of not being waxed.

6th April 2012, 06:26 PM	#10
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I was somewhat partial to the wax, until I found out that it can be damaging to the object it's on. The moisture-repelling properties of a microcristalline wax, i.e. the Renaissance Wax have been overblown, it appears. Here's an article from the Journal of the American Institute of Conservation, which casts serious doubts on the waxing. http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic...35-01-001.html Imho, the conservation product ideally must be easily removable. The wax appears to be incredibly difficult to remove, if the need arises.

6th April 2012, 06:28 PM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Dmitry and Ibrahiim, It is true that microcrystalline way has established in museum conservation since at least 30 years. I too used it very often when working for museums. Regarding those pieces I treated with microcrystalline wax some 30 years ago I cannot see any negative outcome, they are still rust free today. I for my part, as I have often stated here, keep it with Dmitry sticking to the traditional conservation method by olive oil which has proved to preserve arms in arsenals for may hundreds of years. Best, Michael

6th April 2012, 06:40 PM	#13
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Again, our posts have crossed, Michael. I once tried to remove the Ren.Wax from a blade. And I couldn't do it. I tried Acetone, a couple of commercial solvents, and still the white patches of wax wouldn't come off. Apparently it's possible to remove with special solvents, under lab conditions. One might ask - why on Earth did you try to remove the wax? Answer - I had put a very thin layer of it on a perfectly shiny nicely etched blade, and the sheen became dull, as the wax creeped into the miniscule pores in the metal, which were not evident to the naked eye. Just my $.02..

6th April 2012, 06:49 PM	#14
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Dmitry, This of course is the one question almost never asked: how can that wax be removed? With the wax I used (it was mixed for me by a concervation company) I always succeeded rubbing it off with acetone. Sometimes I remember rubbing hard and trying several times, somtimes using a piece of wood soaked in acetone. To hear it does not work probably depends on the solvent originally used in your wax. Anyway, warming the metal should get to wax our of those pittings as well. If it does not, I suggest just ignoring it is there and applying a thick layer of olive oil above it. It should work. Sadly I am not experienced in chemistry myself. Best, Michael

8th April 2012, 10:50 AM	#17
Multumesc Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Romania Posts: 203	It may well preserved with silicone oil for weapons.

10th April 2012, 09:47 PM	#20
TimW Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 54	i would not use olive oil... could get rancid... i use ballistol on all my handmade knives.

12th April 2012, 07:34 PM	#23
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I have just started the process of "olivification" with some store-bought olive oil on the hilt of this French non-comissioned officer's sword ca.1750. It was originally blackened [fer noirci], with only traces remaining around the inside of the shell. Starting photo. Will report back in a couple of months.