Armenian(?) dagger

erlikhan · 20th August 2005, 12:40 AM

this is an Ottoman period dagger and depending on the inscriptions on it said to be Armenian . hilt and scabbard are gilt copper. What are your opinions? Anybody can translate the inscriptions on the blade?

regards

Rivkin · 20th August 2005, 05:59 AM

I'll be honest, I think there is no way to tell the characters using this low-res photos. No idea if they are armenian or not ?

ariel · 20th August 2005, 06:37 AM

I agree. They look Latin to me....

Rivkin · 20th August 2005, 07:46 PM

I'm sorry if my insinuation is wrong, but it seems to me that these pictures probably come from some auction site, and that explains their quality. Did you buy this dagger or it's currently being offered for sale ?

erlikhan · 20th August 2005, 08:20 PM

hi. not auction. I havent bought yet. the seller from another city adressed these pictures to me on net. he says the inscription looks Armenian. It can be anything else than Latin I guess, he would recognize Latin if it was so. What about the shape? Fits a classical form of anywhere?

Montino Bourbon · 20th August 2005, 09:10 PM

The pics ARE very low-res, but I would venture to say that it is Armenian script.

erlikhan · 21st August 2005, 02:50 PM

thank you. and what about the shape and decoration? suits a known style and period?

ariel · 21st August 2005, 04:11 PM

The handle reminds me Turkish regulation military daggers. I have a pic, but the house is being worked on and I can find diddly squat....

Ian · 21st August 2005, 05:24 PM

Perhaps this is a little clearer. Best I could manage with Photoshop.

Ian.

erlikhan · 21st August 2005, 07:00 PM

Thank you Ian.Nice work. Perhaps can help friends. Ariel, i guess you mean "Enveriye", the brass hilted regular dagger issued in 1915, but it is quite different. Attached is a picture from Astvatsaturyan's Turkish weapons. The mid one without scabbard looks almost the same style by hilt shape and blade proportions, but I dont have the book at the moment and dont know which period it is from.??

Rivkin · 21st August 2005, 09:10 PM

First problem I have is that there is no character that is written like "a" in armenian alphabet, and I clearly see one. Armenian sound "a" is written like "u" if it's a capital letter, and like w if it's not. I don't see anything that suggests that the text is in armenian (however it can be, there is not much I can see here).

Concerning the dagger, I think I've seen this guy for sale on ebay not so long ago (or was it his brother ?). It was going as "ottoman court dagger" early XIX century (or was it XVIII ? I don't remember). I'm waiting for my copy of Astvatsaturjan's book, but the blades you show on the picture look to my unprofessional eye as XIX century.

20th August 2005, 12:40 AM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Armenian(?) dagger this is an Ottoman period dagger and depending on the inscriptions on it said to be Armenian . hilt and scabbard are gilt copper. What are your opinions? Anybody can translate the inscriptions on the blade? regards Attached Images

21st August 2005, 05:24 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Perhaps this is a little clearer. Best I could manage with Photoshop. Ian. Attached Images

21st August 2005, 07:00 PM	#10
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Thank you Ian.Nice work. Perhaps can help friends. Ariel, i guess you mean "Enveriye", the brass hilted regular dagger issued in 1915, but it is quite different. Attached is a picture from Astvatsaturyan's Turkish weapons. The mid one without scabbard looks almost the same style by hilt shape and blade proportions, but I dont have the book at the moment and dont know which period it is from.?? Attached Images

20th August 2005, 05:59 AM	#2
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I'll be honest, I think there is no way to tell the characters using this low-res photos. No idea if they are armenian or not ?

20th August 2005, 06:37 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I agree. They look Latin to me....

20th August 2005, 07:46 PM	#4
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I'm sorry if my insinuation is wrong, but it seems to me that these pictures probably come from some auction site, and that explains their quality. Did you buy this dagger or it's currently being offered for sale ?

20th August 2005, 08:20 PM	#5
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	hi. not auction. I havent bought yet. the seller from another city adressed these pictures to me on net. he says the inscription looks Armenian. It can be anything else than Latin I guess, he would recognize Latin if it was so. What about the shape? Fits a classical form of anywhere?

20th August 2005, 09:10 PM	#6
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	The pics ARE very low-res, but I would venture to say that it is Armenian script.

21st August 2005, 02:50 PM	#7
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	thank you. and what about the shape and decoration? suits a known style and period?

21st August 2005, 04:11 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The handle reminds me Turkish regulation military daggers. I have a pic, but the house is being worked on and I can find diddly squat....

21st August 2005, 09:10 PM	#11
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	First problem I have is that there is no character that is written like "a" in armenian alphabet, and I clearly see one. Armenian sound "a" is written like "u" if it's a capital letter, and like w if it's not. I don't see anything that suggests that the text is in armenian (however it can be, there is not much I can see here). Concerning the dagger, I think I've seen this guy for sale on ebay not so long ago (or was it his brother ?). It was going as "ottoman court dagger" early XIX century (or was it XVIII ? I don't remember). I'm waiting for my copy of Astvatsaturjan's book, but the blades you show on the picture look to my unprofessional eye as XIX century.