Tschinke Wheellock Rifle for Comment

[rickystl]

Hello all. A new acquaintance, and a local collector living in my city, showed me a new purchase he just made. He says this is a Tschinke/Selician Wheellock rifle. These are the first two pictures, but I have been promised additional close uo photos and a description of what he believes this gun to be. I have personally held this piece. It is in very good condition and is complete with it's original spanner wrench. The barrel is swamped octagon and has eight groove rifling. It has a fantastic overall patina with no chips in the wood, or anything missing. More photos to come in a couple days. Thanks for looking. Any additional identification appreciated. Rick.

[fernando]

Very nice gun Rick, no doubt !
You sure have a circle of acquaintances who hold the most interesting examples .

[Fernando K]

Hola:

Me temo que falta la palanca para armar el mecanismo de disparo, Justamente, iba colocada en el agujero que se vé en la placa que cubre el resorte (spring) de la rueda.

¿que es esa palanca que está fijada al disparador (trigger)?

Hi
I'm afraid it lacks the lever to arm the trigger mechanism, precisely, was placed in the hole you see in the plate covering the spring of the wheel.

What is the lever that is attached to the trigger ?
Fernando K

.

[rickystl]

Hi Fernando!! The owner says he bought it at a gun show in Louisville, Kentucky USA about four months ago. A most unlikely place. He mentioned that he might be interested in selling it sometime next year. I would surely like to own this gun. But I fear his asking price. Can't wait to see more photos.

Hi Fernando K !!! Very good observation on your part. The gun has an external main spring.
The bar at the rear of the trigger is an early form of adjustable trigger. Very unique. I've never seen one before on a gun this early. The owner said he would show me how it works when I get to view the gun again next month.

Rick.

[Matchlock]

Hi Rick,

I'm afraid to say that this is in no case a characteristic mid-2nd half Silesian/Polish Tschinke ...

The mechanism is of Tschinke mid-17th c. type alright, but the rest of the gun is way too heavily built and too short at the same time. If you wish me to I'll post images of characteristic 1630's-40's Tschinkes. I'm almost sure sure your barrel is shorter, heavier and of unusually large (rifled?) caliber. The average Tschinke calber is of 9-13 mm rifled bore - they were ladies' birding guns after all.

Best, Michael

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Rick,

I'm afraid to say that this is in no case a characteristic mid-2nd half Silesian/Polish Tschinke ...

The mechanism is of Tschinke mid-17th c. type alright, but the rest of the gun is way too heavily built and too short at the same time. If you wish me to I'll post images of characteristic 1630's-40's Tschinkes. I'm almost sure sure your barrel is shorter, heavier and of unusually large (rifled?) caliber. The average Tschinke calber is of 9-13 mm rifled bore - they were ladies' birding guns after all.

Best, Michael

Hi Michael. I very much agree with your assesment. I've actually held three original Tschinke rifles, and viewed many photos in reference books. The three I inspected had the covered wheel. And, as you said, have longer, slim, and smaller caliber barrels. As well, the stock architecture is very different. Having held this piece, it looks like it was made as a larger caliber hunting rifle utilizing a Tschinke lock. (?)
The index card attached to the trigger guard had a description of what the owner "thinks" he has. Unfortunately, my aging memory can't recall the information on the card. However, I should receive this along with the additional photos over the weekend and will Post here.
Michael: Thanks to your expertise, we will be able to advise him a more accurate assesment of what he really owns. This should be fun.
Rick.

[Matchlock]

Hi Rick,

That's exaktly what it is: An early 18th c. dubious 'wheellock' rifle mounted with a mid to late-17th c. Tschinke lock. The trigger and trigger guard are of late 18th c. form and do not belong either. I'm afraid it's a crudely composite piece which in no way can be called a 'Tschinke' ... Honestly, I wouldn' touch it!

In order to make sure what characteristic Silesian (Teschen, Polish) Tschinkes look like I posted a few images.

Please note the typical shapes of the butt stock and the lock mechanism! The one in the bottom image is a rare Italian version with two wheellock mechanisms on the same lockplate, for firing superimposed loads!

Best,
Michael

[rickystl]

Hi Michael.

I think you nailed it!! Obviously it is NOT a Tschinke rifle. The three Tschinke's I've held have stocks that are exactly like the ones in the photos you posted here (although not nearly in as good condition as the photos). Thanks for posting these.
Yes, the trigger and guard never looked right. And the "adjustable" trigger??
As you say, I'm sure this is a later made piece. Still, it will be interesting to see the additional photos. I'll let him know what he really owns. (It's OK. He is a nice guy
One thing this gun does show is how long the wheellock remained popular in Europen civilian hunting circles. Too bad it's an abstract. Thanks Michael. I'll post the additional photos when I receive them. I just remembered........there's a local gun show this weekend. I might see him there? Rick.

[rickystl]

Hi Michael!! I've been away from the Forum for about a month now. Just been very busy. Also caught a cold/virus - TWICE - in one month. Also, having computor problems. Looks like a new lap-top is in my near future.
I've been trying to catch up on all the wonderful threads you've posted and the breath taking photos of matchlocks, etc. Thanks for posting - and the education!!
Meantime, my collector friend finally sent me some extra photos. I still need to convience him to let me take some photos. I'll keep trying.
As previously discussed, this is a later hunting rifle. While an abstract, it looks good. Very nice, even patina. Thanks for looking. Glad to be back. Rick.

p.s. Just for fun, the last photo is a "sample" of his 400+ collection of antique German Mettlack beer steins. LOL

[Matchlock]

Hi Rick,

The stock is an inadeqate 19th c. or later reproduction of a wheellock stock, the mounts are crudely assembled parts from 18th to 19th c. flintlock and percussion guns, the barrel seems to be from the late 17th or 18th c. and should be rifled.
The lock, from what I can tell by these images, looks like good Tschinke lock indeed at first sight. It should be taken out though and controled whether the internal mechanism is complete and original.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

This is one of the extremely rare original Tschinke flasks retaining its ball pouch, Poland, mid-17th c. Prices for an item like this can easily exceed 10,000 USD and more.

Best,
Michael