Anyone know what this is?...

Carlos Santillan · 3rd August 2005, 05:13 AM

Hi TrondN,

As for the blade, I think, It's a blade that classifies as a type XI in Oakeshott's typology of medieval swords.

Type XI characteristics: This type differs from type X by being longer, more narrow and having a narrow fuller. The point is often acute. It is believed to have been in use between c. 1100 and 1175. The sub-type XIa has av broader and shorter blade, but the fuller is still narrow.

Type XI

Best Regards,
Carlos M. Santillan

not2sharp · 3rd August 2005, 07:54 AM

British Bandmans sword of 1856.

n2s

TrondN · 11th August 2005, 11:17 PM

That look exactly like my sample, except for the blade. I'll keep searching for an answer on the blade, but your information has helped me a lot. Thanks again!
And sorry for the late reply. I've been on vacation for a couple of weeks.

Jim McDougall · 12th August 2005, 05:10 AM

Hi TrondN,
I agree with the others noting this to be a British drummers sword, as seen in "Swords of the British Army" by Brian Robson, 1975, p.167, fig. 173.
While this has been referred to as the 'pattern 1856' Mark I.....Robson notes that this pattern '"...seems to have appeared in certain regiments in the early 1840's" (p.166). He cites a painting of a group of the 68th regiment (known as the Paulet Group) painted in 1846 as his reference for this. That painting is illustrated in the "Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research" Vol. XLVI, p.63. I would suggest contacting the National Army Museum in London if interested in obtaining that reference, they have always been more than happy to assist with research.

The blade on your example seems to be an earlier form than the typical diamond section blade with pronouced medial ridge (19") that appeared on the 1856 examples (used until 1895). The cypher on the escutcheon is that of Queen Victoria.

While these noncombatant swords used to be somewhat overlooked by collectors, they really seem to have become more interesting as they dont really appear often....and this one as noted seems to have an earlier blade.

For guys who specialize on ethnographic weapons, you guys are pretty quick on the draw and right on target on this one!!!

I only recognized it because I used to collect British swords a really, really, really long time ago

Thanks for posting this TrondN,

Best regards,
Jim

3rd August 2005, 05:13 AM	#1
Carlos Santillan Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Mexico City, Mexico Posts: 3	Re: Hi TrondN, As for the blade, I think, It's a blade that classifies as a type XI in Oakeshott's typology of medieval swords. Type XI characteristics: This type differs from type X by being longer, more narrow and having a narrow fuller. The point is often acute. It is believed to have been in use between c. 1100 and 1175. The sub-type XIa has av broader and shorter blade, but the fuller is still narrow. Type XI Best Regards, Carlos M. Santillan

11th August 2005, 11:17 PM	#3
TrondN Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3	Thank a lot, n2s!... That look exactly like my sample, except for the blade. I'll keep searching for an answer on the blade, but your information has helped me a lot. Thanks again! And sorry for the late reply. I've been on vacation for a couple of weeks.

3rd August 2005, 07:54 AM	#2
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	British Bandmans sword of 1856. n2s

12th August 2005, 05:10 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Hi TrondN, I agree with the others noting this to be a British drummers sword, as seen in "Swords of the British Army" by Brian Robson, 1975, p.167, fig. 173. While this has been referred to as the 'pattern 1856' Mark I.....Robson notes that this pattern '"...seems to have appeared in certain regiments in the early 1840's" (p.166). He cites a painting of a group of the 68th regiment (known as the Paulet Group) painted in 1846 as his reference for this. That painting is illustrated in the "Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research" Vol. XLVI, p.63. I would suggest contacting the National Army Museum in London if interested in obtaining that reference, they have always been more than happy to assist with research. The blade on your example seems to be an earlier form than the typical diamond section blade with pronouced medial ridge (19") that appeared on the 1856 examples (used until 1895). The cypher on the escutcheon is that of Queen Victoria. While these noncombatant swords used to be somewhat overlooked by collectors, they really seem to have become more interesting as they dont really appear often....and this one as noted seems to have an earlier blade. For guys who specialize on ethnographic weapons, you guys are pretty quick on the draw and right on target on this one!!! I only recognized it because I used to collect British swords a really, really, really long time ago Thanks for posting this TrondN, Best regards, Jim