Saudi Jambiya - dagger

[Edge]

Hi guys, this is my first post!
I don't know much about weapons (as I have other hobbies) but having read some posts on this messageboard, I saw a lot of you guys know a lot or are willing to learn and I think that's cool. I'm anti violence but I do think some weapons look aesthetically look cool and I am interested in their history (background of cultures), craftsmanship and technology. It's great and fun to learn new things

I recently purchased the following Saudi dagger, and from my research (and as you guys probably know 100%) I found out they are called Jambiyas. Most of these Jambiyas are made in Yemen, but some were made in other places like Saudi Arabia and Oman (distinct fot smaller and more curved-almost 90degrees).

I found these links which show almost identical Saudi Jambiyas as the ones I have posted in the images below

http://www.antigaarabia.co​m/uploads/102-103.pdf
and http://www.antigaarabia.co​m/da.pdf

They say they were made between the late 19th century (late 1800s) and early 20th century (early 1900s) in a place called Asir which is located South West of Saudi Arabia near the Yemen border.


I asked the seller I got it from if they know anything about it and they said: they bought this dagger from a really old man in Rihad, Saudi Arabia in the 1970's who told them it was made in a place called Najran province of Saudi near the Yemani border, The craftsmen were skilled Jews that excelled in silver and gold craftsmanship. They produced some of the finest work of the Arabian peninsula during the late19 century/early 20th century. They said that's all they knew about the dagger, and that it is a very fine example of a Saudi silver, and that most of the other Saudi daggers are of inferior workmanship and are often made in Yeman.

I did further research about Rihad, which i found to be spelt Riyadh on most websites and wikipedia (I know it's not a great source but anyway it) says that the place had people from different nationalities and Jews were silversmiths there, and afterwards the place was being fought over between Yemen and Saudi Arabia; which Saudi Arabia eventually took over. After the 'creation' of Israel after WW2, many of them were flown over to Israel in something i foudn to be called Operation Magic Carpet (I'm not kidding about the name-look it up-i was surprised).

Regarding the dagger, it is almost 60cm long (hard to calculate because it is curved) but it isn't small! it is as big as from my waist to my knee and I'm 1,80m tall, so it's like a small sword. I don't know if the outside scabbard is silver but the only thing a magnet would attach to was the actual blade, which is a tiny bit sharp (haven't tested it or want to). Another thing is, it's pretty heavy, and the scabbard is half the weight (around 500g), altogether I'm guessing it weighs 1kg.

I don't know if the blade is something called 'wootz', it was very difficult to photograph the blade as it was extremely shiny, it has tiny lines in it (I hope it's not done by a wire brush-bad restoration) but they are tiny all over the place as if they are withtin the blade itself.

I'm also curious if these are in any museum (altough I got this to pass onto my children because it looks sweet), I absolutely love the scabbard design, I'm pretty sure it's between 60 and 100years old at least and is hand made.

I have often read on the internet and on forums that this dagger is a 'wahabite' dagger, however many people say that this is a wrong definition to use.

Khanjar1, archer are some users on this messageboard which have posted similar daggers, I am here to learn, and anything you can tell me about it will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Lew]

Hi Edge welcome to the forum.

I took the liberty of deleting your question on the dagger's value. In the future please refrain from asking for $$$ values on the open forum it is against the rules.

Thanks

Lew

[A.alnakkas]

Hello Edge,

Welcome to the forum!

Your Jambiya is of the Asir/hijaz (south saudi) type. Its of a good quality but I think its from the 2nd half of the 20th century. These are still being made with faithfulness and using good material (they are still worn sometimes)

The blade is not wootz from what I can see and it is identical to other blades of jambiyas in similar form. Though most saudi produced daggers/swords are made of good quality steel using car suspension springs as far as I know.

I found some before identical to this one but passed on them (expensive!)

Regards,

Abdullatif

[kahnjar1]

Welcome to the Forum.
I agree with Abdullatif. This is Asir/Hijaz from mid 20th c. I have a very similar one with a different style blade which came in a nice felt covered presentation box, with the Saudi Crest on the lid.
The correct Saudi description is Dharia dagger in Muqaffala or Mufarragha style.
If you need to, please feel free to email me at sabiki@clear.net.nz
Regards Stuart

[Edge]

I took the liberty of deleting your question on the dagger's value. In the future please refrain from asking for $$$ values on the open forum it is against the rules.

ok sorry about that! I was just curious!

Though most saudi produced daggers/swords are made of good quality steel using car suspension springs as far as I know

OMG! lol scary! (it might explain why it smells bad lol-see below..)

Stuart thanks for the photos and the information



This might seem weird but I would also like to add that the leather smells awefully bad , it smells old and the silver or metal smells very much like smelly exhaust fumes terminator2ish like WD40 (only 100x worse up close), maybe it's whatever they used on it? or the blood of the innocents :P I'm also unsure if it has been restored where there is black stuff that keeps the blade and the handle together, I think that stuff smells too what the hell..

Under the leather belt-holder at the >front< of the sword's scabbard, it's like as if the metal has been worn down and is smooth and lost it's pattern, probably because someone was wearing it and with friction it smoothed down?

I also see that under the leather at the rear, there is some sort of reaction and the metal has turned dark/greeney, probably because they used inferior/inpurer metals at the back instead of the front.

I hope/wish this wasen't of the mid 1900s, I want something old

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Edge

ok sorry about that! I was just curious!

OMG! lol scary! (it might explain why it smells bad lol-see below..)

Stuart thanks for the photos and the information



This might seem weird but I would also like to add that the leather smells awefully bad , it smells old and the silver or metal smells very much like smelly exhaust fumes terminator2ish like WD40 (only 100x worse up close), maybe it's whatever they used on it? or the blood of the innocents :P I'm also unsure if it has been restored where there is black stuff that keeps the blade and the handle together, I think that stuff smells too what the hell..

Under the leather belt-holder at the >front< of the sword's scabbard, it's like as if the metal has been worn down and is smooth and lost it's pattern, probably because someone was wearing it and with friction it smoothed down?

I also see that under the leather at the rear, there is some sort of reaction and the metal has turned dark/greeney, probably because they used inferior/inpurer metals at the back instead of the front.

I hope/wish this wasen't of the mid 1900s, I want something old

Leather can smell depending on what it has been near, or been treated with. Likely some sort of animal fat if it has been used in a tribal area. The "green" you mention is probably mild corrosion, and the plain worn look under the leather is probably exactly that, but also there is normally no decoration in the area where the belt goes. The black stuff holding the blade in place is pitch usually.
Please email me sabiki@clear.net.nz
Regards Stuart

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Edge

ok sorry about that! I was just curious!

OMG! lol scary! (it might explain why it smells bad lol-see below..)

Stuart thanks for the photos and the information



This might seem weird but I would also like to add that the leather smells awefully bad , it smells old and the silver or metal smells very much like smelly exhaust fumes terminator2ish like WD40 (only 100x worse up close), maybe it's whatever they used on it? or the blood of the innocents :P I'm also unsure if it has been restored where there is black stuff that keeps the blade and the handle together, I think that stuff smells too what the hell..

Under the leather belt-holder at the >front< of the sword's scabbard, it's like as if the metal has been worn down and is smooth and lost it's pattern, probably because someone was wearing it and with friction it smoothed down?

I also see that under the leather at the rear, there is some sort of reaction and the metal has turned dark/greeney, probably because they used inferior/inpurer metals at the back instead of the front.

I hope/wish this wasen't of the mid 1900s, I want something old

Hi 'Edge'

The reaction where the metal has turned green will probobly be from the tannins in the leather corroding the metal. The green colour will be 'verdi gris' formed by the oxidisation of the copper content of the metal.

The wear on the metal (if that's what it is) may indicate that this was worn and used for some time prior to being bought in the 1970s.
How long, you'll have to judge for yourself from the state of the leather and item in general.

As has been stated, these have been made for a long period and frankly if yours was made in 1920 or 1950, it makes very little difference.

The important thing is that it is a very handsome example, in great condition. It looks to be well made, with a well formed blade, high quality silverwork on the hilt and mounts, and it has its belt!

I'd be happy to own it and if it were mine it would be a keeper!
So congratulations on a really nice piece!

Jealous Regards
Gene

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi 'Edge'

The important thing is that it is a very handsome example, in great condition. It looks to be well made, with a well formed blade, high quality silverwork on the hilt and mounts, and it has its belt!

I'd be happy to own it and if it were mine it would be a keeper!
So congratulations on a really nice piece!

Jealous Regards
Gene

I agree with Gene,

This is a very fine looking example (one of the best I have seen) and has been used, that is important, I wouldn't be distracted by any age reference, it is a smashing looking piece.

Gav

[Edge]

you guys put a smile on my face,
Cheers