Kris from Yogyakarta

[GIO]

Can somebody help me in identifying the pamor of this kris ?
Many thanks in advance

[simatua]

Although the pamor circles are more round than oval i think the pamor name is wiji timun(concomber seed) ; because is is comprimated/centered in the wilah(blade)

It looks a lot like uler lulut(snake skin?), which is normaly bigger

[Henk]

I love this one. Congrats on this find

[A. G. Maisey]

Classic banyu tetes.

[GIO]

Alan and Simatua, though your answers do not match, I am grateful for your help.
As to myself, I cannot have an opinion since I have no examples of pamor banyu tetes.
Many thanks again.

[asomotif]

Lovely keris. Lovely pamor.

I also like the pendok with the linear design. I have a similar one on one of my keris. Is there a name for this specific pendok motif ?

Best regards,
Willem

[Gustav]

This motiv is called menyan kobar (burning incense), according to Solyom. It probably has protective meaning.

On batik there is a similar motiv, called nganam gedeg.

This motiv of imitated plaitwork is very old, you can see it also on old ceramics from archipelago.

[asomotif]

Thank you Gustav !

[GIO]

Willem and Gustav, many thanks for the additional info.
Re the monogram on the reverse of the pendok, it means "Allah", but probably you already knew that.

[A. G. Maisey]

"Allah" ?

Really?

It looks like the lambang of the Karaton Ngayogyakrta Hadiningrat to me.

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by GIO

Alan and Simatua, though your answers do not match, I am grateful for your help.
As to myself, I cannot have an opinion since I have no examples of pamor banyu tetes.
Many thanks again.

Me think it is called "wahyu temurun"

[A. G. Maisey]

Penangsang, I have never heard of pamor wahyu temuran, but that does not mean that it does not exist and that somewhere this pamor is known by that name, so tell us please :- where is this pamor known as wahyu temurun?

In Solo, and East Jawa --- Surabaya, Malang --- I have never heard anybody call it other than banyu tetes, and it is a very common pamor in current era keris, as this one is.

[GIO]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

"Allah" ?

Really?

It looks like the lambang of the Karaton Ngayogyakrta Hadiningrat to me.

I do not know arabic, but I had it translated by two persons, and one was a mother-tongue teacher.
This said, I am ready to take into account other interpretations.
Is there anybody who can contribute ?

[Gustav]

Dear All,

after a private correspondence and a look in Solyom's book I must say, my reading was wery sloppy. Here some more details about plaitwork imitation on pendoks.

Nganam Gedeg (Gedeg - split flattened interplaited bamboo) and Tirto (water) Tejo (sparkling) are both known as batik motivs (the names of batik patterns are also used as the names of patterns in other Javanese arts); the only difference between these is the orientation of the bambu weave, and alternation of inscribed and blank bars. Looking at Tirto Tejo you see zig-zag waves.

Regarding Menyan (incense) Kobar (burning), there should be wavy lines incised on some certain bars, which together form an ascending wavy line over the pendok. The bars should be sufficiently wide to permit execution of this motiv.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by GIO

I do not know arabic, but I had it translated by two persons, and one was a mother-tongue teacher.
This said, I am ready to take into account other interpretations.
Is there anybody who can contribute ?

Hello Gio,
I confirm that this is the blazon of the Sultan from Yogya, see attached picture taken at the entrance of the palace (sorry for the pic quality). Nothing to do with arabic script I think.
Best regards
Jean

[Jean]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Lovely keris. Lovely pamor.

I also like the pendok with the linear design. I have a similar one on one of my keris. Is there a name for this specific pendok motif ?

Best regards,
Willem

Hello Willem,
Yogya pendok fitted on a Solonese warangka or just a manufacturer stamp?
Best regards
Jean

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Willem,
Yogya pendok fitted on a Solonese warangka or just a manufacturer stamp?
Best regards
Jean

Good question.
The pendok fits like a glove and seems original to the scabbard.

[A. G. Maisey]

GIO, I cannot read hanacaraka (Javanese script), and the letters within the coat of arms of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta are somewhat stylised, but even so, I think that we will find that these leters are "Hb", standing for "Hamengkubuwana", the common abbreviation for the title of the Sultan of Jogja:-

Sampeyan Dalem Ingkang Sinuwun Kanjeng Hamengku Buwono Senapati ing Ngalaga , Abdurrahman Sayidin Panatagama Kalifatullah.

One thing is absolutely certain:- these letters are not any form of Arabic script, they are Javanese script, and they do not read as "Allah".

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Me think it is called "wahyu temurun"

Hi Alan,

I have no idea the exact origin of the term "wahyu temurun" but its quite common name used in Jogja and by collectors of Javanese keris here in Malaysia. After doing some checking with a few of my collector friends, the pamor is also known as "tirto tumetes" or "banyu tumetes" as you had mentioned earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

GIO, I cannot read hanacaraka (Javanese script), and the letters within the coat of arms of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta are somewhat stylised, but even so, I think that we will find that these leters are "Hb", standing for "Hamengkubuwana", the common abbreviation for the title of the Sultan of Jogja:-

Sampeyan Dalem Ingkang Sinuwun Kanjeng Hamengku Buwono Senapati ing Ngalaga , Abdurrahman Sayidin Panatagama Kalifatullah.

One thing is absolutely certain:- these letters are not any form of Arabic script, they are Javanese script, and they do not read as "Allah".

Yes, those are Javanese aksara.

[GIO]

Jean, you convinced me.
I think I have understood the reason of the confusion created by the interpretation of the monogram.
If you examine the writing of Allah in islamic, you will certainly notice that the monogram on the pendok is very similar, but the letters are written in the correct sequence and in reverse sequence. If you show it to a person who knows Arabic only, he will be oriented to read what the monogram looks like to him. To have a more clear idea please look at the writing of the 99 names of Allah in Wikipedia.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by GIO

If you examine the writing of Allah in islamic, you will certainly notice that the monogram on the pendok is very similar, but the letters are written in the correct sequence and in reverse sequence.

Hello Gio,
If you look at the coat of arms upside down, the writing looks a little bit like Allah indeed but an arabic language teacher should not confuse it.
Best regards
Jean

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by GIO

Jean, you convinced me.
I think I have understood the reason of the confusion created by the interpretation of the monogram.
If you examine the writing of Allah in islamic, you will certainly notice that the monogram on the pendok is very similar, but the letters are written in the correct sequence and in reverse sequence. If you show it to a person who knows Arabic only, he will be oriented to read what the monogram looks like to him. To have a more clear idea please look at the writing of the 99 names of Allah in Wikipedia.

Hallo Gio
About the name look this post:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3831

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Hallo Gio
About the name look this post:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3831

Hallo Gio
About the name look this post:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3831
PS: sorry all , about the wood is not timoho but another kind of wood but i don't remember the name

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Penangsang.

You have given a very good example of why I have such an ingrained dislike of what I think of as "The Name Game".

I saw this pamor for the first time in about 1974. I saw it in Solo, and I asked an antiques dealer --- who was later to become a very famous Mpu Keris --- what the pamor was called. I was told "banyu tetes".

Until I read your name of "wahyu temurun", I had never heard a different name used for this pamor.

It is interesting to look at what these names mean.

"banyu tetes" means dripping water

"tirto tumetes" means water that drips continuously, but it is rather peculiar Javanese, because we have a mix of the the literary form in "tirto" and common Javanese (ngoko) in "tumetes"

"banyu tumetes" is better and also means water that drips continuously, but uses compatible forms of language

So, we have names that carry the sense of dripping water

Then we have "wahyu temurun" :- "wahyu" is a sign from heaven, usually in the form of a falling star, that indicates somebody to fill a high position, such as a king or a chief; "temurun", correctly this should be "tumurun", but Javanese is a non-standardised language, so its acceptable for spellings to migrate around a bit, possibly "temurun" is the Indonesian or Malay form, in any case "tumurun" means inheritance, it comes from the word "turun" to descend through a blood line, or it can also mean a descendant.

Now here is the interesting thing:- I've been speaking of Javanese meanings, and in Javanese the root word "turun" is a genealogical indicator, and "wahyu" is only understood as a sign from heaven, however, in Indonesian, and possibly Malay (?) "turun" has the much wider meaning of to go down or descend, and in many different senses, while the word "wahyu" can---depending on the way in which it is used--- can mean a mystical power.

So, "wahyu tumurun":- "an inherited mystical power" ? to me this sounds very, very much like the invention of a keris salesman, it certainly does not sound much like the usual naturalistic names for Javanese pamor, and it is rather peculiar language in any case.But you must admit, its much more catchy than plain old dripping water.

It is an unfortunate fact of keris life in the keris lexicon that names do get invented for things and these names then come into general usage with no true foundation in keris tradition.

I've told the following story before, but I believe it is worth repetition.

Many years ago I was in a warung in Triwindu and runner from Madura came in with some keris to sell to the dealer who owned the warung. Amongst these keris was one with a new pamor that I had not previously seen. I asked the name of the pamor and I was told it was a new pamor that did not yet have a name.I bought this keris, and then it was suggested to me that I should give the pamor a name. So I did. I named it "tirto tejo".

Next time I came back to Solo I was in a different dealer's warung, and low and behold, there were a number of keris with the same pamor as the one I had bought the previous year, and had named "tirto tejo". I asked another customer if he knew what the name of this pamor was:- "Oh yes, that's tirto tejo". I did not have the heart to tell him that it had been named tirto tejo by a bule only 12 months previously.

From this I learnt that when a name is given for a pamor, or a dhapur, or anything at all to do with keris, that name has very little value unless it is tied to a time and place and preferably a person.

Edit
I have now had the opportunity to check a dictionary and have found that the spelling "temurun" is indeed the Indonesian spelling. Not only is it the way in which this word is spelt in Indonesian, but in Indonesian the word carries a wide range of meanings.

To me, this is conclusive proof that "wahyu temurun" is not a pamor name rooted in Javanese keris tradition, rather, it is a modern name, as I have already suggested, perhaps invented for commercial purposes.

[PenangsangII]

Thank you Alan for yet another free lesson on kerisology. Yes, I must admit that keris terminolgy has strayed a lot from its originality. And the meaning of originality in keris world, should be from that of empu attached to the kraton. Not from some keris vendors or collectors - and that you had the privilege to to be with the kraton related empu, is the envy of us all.

this is a keris in my collection that I was referring to having pamor called, or rather so-called wahyu temurun or banyu/tirto tumetes.

[GIO]

Thanks a lot, Alan, and thanks to all friends who have contributed to this subject.