Interesting Philippine Dagger

[Lew]

Picked this up the other day seems old maybe katipunan? Let me know what you think.

[Robert]

Hello Lew, I don't remember ever seeing any edged weapons from the Philippines with stacked horn and bone hilts before (but there are a lot of things I haven't seen) though I have seen quite a few daggers from Mexico with this style of hilt. Very nice dagger and the sheath looks to be in great shape !!! Does the blade have a raised medial ridge (I can't tell for sure by the picture) and if so does it have one on both sides or it the blade flat on one side, or is it oval in shape? I think that I will wait to see what the experts have to say on the origin of this one. All in all a very nice dagger and I think you should box it up and send it to me.

Robert

[Lew]

Robert if you like this one you should see the little beauty I picked up at Timonium. It is a 19th century katipunan dagger with a 5.5 inch kris style blade horn hilt with silver fittings on both the hilt and scabbard. Will post some pics on Saturday.

[Robert]

"Robert if you like this one you should see the little beauty I picked up at Timonium. It is a 19th century katipunan dagger with a 5.5 inch kris style blade horn hilt with silver fittings on both the hilt and scabbard. Will post some pics on Saturday."

WOW !!! Can't wait to see it !

Robert

P.S. Never mind about sending the first one, send this one instead.

[carlos]

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

"Robert if you like this one you should see the little beauty I picked up at Timonium. It is a 19th century katipunan dagger with a 5.5 inch kris style blade horn hilt with silver fittings on both the hilt and scabbard. Will post some pics on Saturday."

WOW !!! Can't wait to see it !

Robert

P.S. Never mind about sending the first one, send this one instead.

I´m very nervous too!!!
Pictures!
please...
thanks
carlos

[Battara]

Well I guess anything is possible, but I would lean toward Mexico right now.

Yes PLEASE post the Katipunan piece with silver (I love shiny things ).

[Lew]

Jose

There were many Mexicans that were brouht over by the Spanish during the early 1800s plus the Mexican air force was in the Philippines in 1944 to help bomb the Japanese. So it is possible that this dagger could have a Mexican flare to it? I still think it's Philippine the scabbard is not of the same style or construction as the Mexican scabbards from the 1930-40s.

[Robert]

Hello Lew,
I am not saying that this dagger is not from the Philippines and I agree with you that the scabbard looks more Philippine than Mexican in its overall style and construction. While the overall appearance of this dagger gives me the same impression of being of Philippine origin I would have expected it to have a raised medial ridge on at least one side of the blade but at the same time I have a small dagger from the Visayans with a very similar blade profile that also does not have a pronounced medial ridge. Like I stated earlier the stacked dark horn and bone (or is it blond horn) hilt is what I have not seen on a Philippine piece before. I am sure that the Mexican people who were brought to the Philippines in the early 1800's or even later had the same opportunity to influence the style of some of the weapons produced there as did the Chinese, Spanish and Americans (look at all the Bowie knives). As for age I would guess this to be from 1900-1930's and I would still like to have it in my collection.


Robert

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Lew

Jose

There were many Mexicans that were brouht over by the Spanish during the early 1800s plus the Mexican air force was in the Philippines in 1944 to help bomb the Japanese. So it is possible that this dagger could have a Mexican flare to it? I still think it's Philippine the scabbard is not of the same style or construction as the Mexican scabbards from the 1930-40s.

Excellent mention on the Mexican Air Force who served in the Philippines in WWII with outstanding participation attached to US units. They were Escaudron 201 of the Fuerza Aerea Expedicionaria Mexicana and were flying the P-47D Thunderbolt fighter planes. These pilots affectionately called the planes 'el jarro' (=the jug) and referred to themselves as the Aztec Eagles.
They never wanted to play up thier part in the action and of course never thought of themselves as particularly heroic, and after the war were largely forgotten. Few really know that our friends from south of the border actually had an air force, let alone fought at our side in WWII. Thanks for including it here.

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent mention on the Mexican Air Force who served in the Philippines in WWII with outstanding participation attached to US units. They were Escaudron 201 of the Fuerza Aerea Expedicionaria Mexicana and were flying the P-47D Thunderbolt fighter planes. These pilots affectionately called the planes 'el jarro' (=the jug) and referred to themselves as the Aztec Eagles.
They never wanted to play up thier part in the action and of course never thought of themselves as particularly heroic, and after the war were largely forgotten. Few really know that our friends from south of the border actually had an air force, let alone fought at our side in WWII. Thanks for including it here.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing this. Learning something new everyday.


As for the Spanish who "brought over Mexicans" to the Philippines in the 1800s. I believe many folks who are in to Philippine History, and many Filipino historians included, seem to forget about the Philippines under the "New Spain" Era. Prior to the opening of the Suez Canal and prior to Mexico becoming independent, from 1565 to 1821 the Philippines was a district of "Virreinato de Nueva España"(Viceroyalty of New Spain), and not under Spain directly. New Spain was the Spanish Empire of North and Central America, which had their own Viceroy and Mexico City being the capital. During this time, the Philippines had a major influx of Mexicans. This co-insides with the whole Acapulco-Manila Galleon Trade...note that this trade was terminated completely in 1815 once Mexico revolted and became independent. As you can see and guess, the Spanish could no longer bring over any Mexican nationals after 1821 to the Philippines. And once the Suez Canal was open in 1869, the Philippines saw more Spaniards than Mexicans. Since we Filipinos just seem to remember more recent current events in history(pass 1-2 hundred years), Filipinos(including the school system) recognize more the Philippines under Spains control, and not under Mexicos control...thinking of Spains rule for 3-400 years. Most historians just feel the need to infuse the two eras of the Philippines being under New Spain and Spain....I choose not to, considering much of our culture can be traced back to Mexico, and not Spain...and New Spain/Mexico was nearly a different country even though they were under Spain. True, Mexico has major influences and customs directly from Spain, so it would seem the same...but you can definitely see the Mexican twist put on to those customs...and those same Mexican differences you can still see today in Philippine customs and traditions. My two centavos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILwDrdM2XD4

[Battara]

That is a good point (get it! ) about the scabbard. I was looking at the hilt. Could be Filipino with Mexican influences on the hilt.