new keris owner

[dave78]

This is my first post on this forum and I look forward to your comments and expertise. I am completely new to the world of Keris knives so please excuse my limited knowledge and terminology on the subject.

I recently acquired this Keris knife after my grandfather passed away, and would like some more information on it if possible. I have included some pictures to help. All I know about this knife is that my grandfather, who is British, got it in Malaya around 1951 when he was there with the British RAF. It is about 10 1/4 inches in the sheath and about 9 3/4 inches out of the sheath (I can't remember what the sheath is called). I have done a little research on the internet, and all I can come up with is it was (I believe) made in the Sulawesi area because of the shape of the Hilt. The blade is smooth, so I don't believe it contains meteorite metal. Other than that I know virtually nothing else.

So my questions are rather general:

Is it from the Sulawesi area?

Is it possible to tell the age?

What type of wood is used and is that bone or ivory?

How is the condition and should I do anything to preserve it?

I greatly appreciate any and all comments and want to thank you all in advance.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by dave78

So my questions are rather general:

Is it from the Sulawesi area?

Is it possible to tell the age?

What type of wood is used and is that bone or ivory?

How is the condition and should I do anything to preserve it?

I greatly appreciate any and all comments and want to thank you all in advance.

Hello Dave,
I have little knowledge about Malay krisses but can reply as follows:
. This kris is not from Sulawesi but rather from Malaysia from the shape of the hilt (anak ayam/ Jawa demam) and the sheath especially.
. It has some age, probably about 100 years old, the blade may be older.
. I don't know the wood type (not a rare one), and the tip of the sheath is probably made from ivory.
. The blade is in Bugis style, it could be cleaned by dipping it into a mild acidic solution (canned pinapple juice, vinegar, citric acid) and stained with arsenic solution, please refer to the forum threads about the subject.
I attach the picture of a similar kris in my collection, in partly damaged condition and with a different style of blade.
Best regards
Jean

[BluErf]

Looks a Terengganu keris, possibly post-war.

[Sajen]

Welcome to the forum Dave,

the wood of the scabbard can need a cleaning with car polish and after this an oiling with a good wood oil. This will prevent that the wood get more cracks like to seen on your pictures. The wood of the cross piece can be kemuning wood but I am not certain by this.
So far I know are Peninsula keris blades are not etched/stained with arsenic solution but a cleaning with an acid like Jean suggested will bring out the pattern on the blade as well.
Nice keris !

Regards,

Detlef

[David]

I agree with BlueErf that this is a keris from the Malay peninsula, probably Terengganu. I also don't think it is particularly old. Sometime before or after WW 2 is likely.
As has been mentioned, the staining of blades is not particularly traditional with Malay blades so that step would be unnecessary. If the hilt can be easily removed soak the blade in pineapple juice and brush the blade regularly with an old toothbrush until all the rust has been removed. This is not a simple "dipping" process, it could take days.

[Gustav]

Welcome!

both hilt and sampir (cross piece of sheath) looks like ketengga wood, batang (stem piece) sena wood.

[David]

Here is a very similarly dress keris...

[dave78]

Thank you all very much. This has been a most interesting research project.

One more question regarding one of the purposes of the keris knife. When I was very young I can remember my grandfather telling me that this was a stabbing knife (which I believe is true), and the reason for the very skinny part of the blade which fit into the hilt was so the hilt could be easily snapped off after stabbing, preventing the removal of the blade (which I'm not so sure of).

[Laowang]

...and another one.

Some additional information on this kind of keris available here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11672

[David]

Originally Posted by dave78

One more question regarding one of the purposes of the keris knife. When I was very young I can remember my grandfather telling me that this was a stabbing knife (which I believe is true), and the reason for the very skinny part of the blade which fit into the hilt was so the hilt could be easily snapped off after stabbing, preventing the removal of the blade (which I'm not so sure of).

Yes, keris are stabbing weapons, but the second part about snapping off the hilt is incorrect.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by BluErf

Looks a Terengganu keris, possibly post-war.

Dave told us that the kris was purchased in 1951 so unless grand-pa bought a new or very recent piece, it should be a little older than WW2....

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Dave told us that the kris was purchased in 1951 so unless grand-pa bought a new or very recent piece, it should be a little older than WW2....

Well Jean, that is indeed quite possible it was new when purchased. This easily could be 60 years of wear, especially if grandpa didn't treat this item with quite the love and care that we keris collectors might. It's a fairly low end blade and without constant care and oiling it could well get to this state in that period of time.....
....or perhaps it is pre-WW2 and post WW1...it the greater scheme of things i don't believe it makes all that much difference. I do not believe this to be a 19th century keris though....

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by David

Well Jean, that is indeed quite possible it was new when purchased. This easily could be 60 years of wear, especially if grandpa didn't treat this item with quite the love and care that we keris collectors might. It's a fairly low end blade and without constant care and oiling it could well get to this state in that period of time.....
....or perhaps it is pre-WW2 and post WW1...it the greater scheme of things i don't believe it makes all that much difference. I do not believe this to be a 19th century keris though....

Oh, I didn't read the post by Dave78; I only looked at the pictures. Ok, I cld be off, and this cld be a pre-WW2 keris, but I agree with David that this is not likely to be a 19th Century keris.