Just ended on e-bay

Sajen · 5th October 2010, 03:17 AM

Just ended on e-bay, what you think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEDWX:IT

BTW, I am not the winner. Pictures from the seller.

Marcokeris · 5th October 2010, 05:17 PM

The hit (tayuman?) seems very good. The selut (yakut stones?) is veri nice. Mendak is good but more little is better for the selut.
The pictures on gayaman are very nice (i have one ladrang with the same pictures) The blade is nice but i am not sure that it is old
Pendok is, of course, nice

Sajen · 5th October 2010, 05:49 PM

Hello Marco,

yes, that is the question, is this keris an old one and worked from a empu and is the high price justified.

The seller write in his description that the stones are tested, so this are inten (diamonds) and not yakult stones. When the mendak is worked from gold it is adequate, in my humble opinion.

Regards,

Detlef

Henk · 5th October 2010, 08:26 PM

In my opinion this is a more recent manufactured keris, but well executed. Very nice. The price? The sky is the limit..........................

A. G. Maisey · 5th October 2010, 11:38 PM

Based upon what I can see in these photographs, and with my usual qualification that my opinion could change if I handled the piece, I believe that this is a keris from the period 1850 to 1930, but I do not think it is the product of an mpu, rather the product of a pande keris.

The sunggingan work is only fair average quality.

If the red slorok is kemalo that would date this dress to pre-WWII.

The material used for selut and pendok is not mentioned, we do not know if it is gold nor its quality, or if it is gold plate, or if it is gilt. This can have a massive effect on value.

If we assume that the pendok is gilded brass, and that the selut is gilded tin or copper, the price that this keris achieved is in fact quite low.

If we assume that the pendok and selut are low carat gold, the price is very, very low. In fact, it was given away.

Note that this is Solo dress, so the "prince of Jogja" spiel does not quite ring true, however, the colours used in the dress do indicate regal ownership.

Whoever got this got a very good buy indeed.

asomotif · 6th October 2010, 12:04 AM

The seller states in his Q+A :

Quote:

the gold ornaments are gilded

this is really not my style of keris, but if the age is correct and with gilded fittings and inten. Pfew. we are not to discuss prices, but this was not expensive.

David · 6th October 2010, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Based upon what I can see in these photographs, and with my usual qualification that my opinion could change if I handled the piece, I believe that this is a keris from the period 1850 to 1930, but I do not think it is the product of an mpu, rather the product of a pande keris.

The sunggingan work is only fair average quality.

If the red slorok is kemalo that would date this dress to pre-WWII.

The material used for selut and pendok is not mentioned, we do not know if it is gold nor its quality, or if it is gold plate, or if it is gilt. This can have a massive effect on value.

If we assume that the pendok is gilded brass, and that the selut is gilded tin or copper, the price that this keris achieved is in fact quite low.

If we assume that the pendok and selut are low carat gold, the price is very, very low. In fact, it was given away.

Note that this is Solo dress, so the "prince of Jogja" spiel does not quite ring true, however, the colours used in the dress do indicate regal ownership.

Whoever got this got a very good buy indeed.

Alan, just to be clear, are you suggesting that the entire ensemble is 1850-1930, or is the dress from a later period?
You seem doubtful that this is the work of an mpu. Is it common for someone in the royal family to own pande made keris?
Lastly, does it seem that this keris actually properly fits in this sheath? I see no photos here or in the auction that confirm a proper fit. Is it possible that this sheath was not made for this wilah and if so can we base any possibility of regal ownership on the sheath itself?

A. G. Maisey · 6th October 2010, 04:21 AM

I feel that all parts of this ensemble could come from the indicated time period, however, whether or not they all date from the same year I would not like to say. My feeling is that the wrongko could come from much later in the period, however, if, and I emphasise "if" the slorok is kemalo there is high probability, even certainty, that my opinion on dating the dress is accurate.I do not think that this dress could date from after WWII, not with the apparent patina + the kemalo pendok.But I'm going on photos on a screen, and we all know how misleading they can be.

I have seen and handled keris that were given in times past to members of the Surakarta royal family. In nearly all cases these were very, very ordinary keris. The keris that are owned by members of a royal family may not necessarily be of what we would regard as "royal" quality. So yes, a member of a royal family could certainly own a keris that had not been made by an mpu.

The fit in the photos does not look good, however, the opening in the wrongko seems to be correct for the gonjo, and the curve in the atasan seems to be correct for the curve in the gonjo. It may be that the blade was not pushed fully home, it may be that distortion has occurred in the wood, it may be that an insect has crawled into the gandar and created an obstruction. There are many possibilities. It is quite usual as a part of maintenance for the inside of an old scabbard to be cleaned thoroughly by removal of a very thin shaving of wood, this is often done when a new gandar is fitted, and it is also done when the inside of a wrongko becomes fouled and rotten. I feel that if this wrongko were to be properly cleaned the blade would sit correctly. However, as far as royal family ownership is concerned, the only indicator is the dress, and this is not necessarily a gaurantee, only an indicator of possibility.

David · 6th October 2010, 01:27 PM

Thanks Alan.

Sajen · 6th October 2010, 04:00 PM

Thank's all for comment. It have been my feeling that it is an older pice and have had the hope that noboby else see it!

The red kemalo(?) slorok shows wear and the fittings have a fairly good quality.
I think that the first two pictures shows the wilah stick out of the sheath a little bit by what reason ever and that the fit inside the sheat maybe is very well. A crying shame that my financial situation haven't been like this to bit more high!

But I hope that a member of the forum have done this catch.

kai · 6th October 2010, 10:05 PM

What about the selut and jejeran? Seems to me that the fit is somewhat off for such a piece, isn't it?

Regards,
Kai

5th October 2010, 03:17 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Just ended on e-bay Just ended on e-bay, what you think? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEDWX:IT BTW, I am not the winner. Pictures from the seller. Attached Images

5th October 2010, 05:17 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	The hit (tayuman?) seems very good. The selut (yakut stones?) is veri nice. Mendak is good but more little is better for the selut. The pictures on gayaman are very nice (i have one ladrang with the same pictures) The blade is nice but i am not sure that it is old Pendok is, of course, nice

5th October 2010, 05:49 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello Marco, yes, that is the question, is this keris an old one and worked from a empu and is the high price justified. The seller write in his description that the stones are tested, so this are inten (diamonds) and not yakult stones. When the mendak is worked from gold it is adequate, in my humble opinion. Regards, Detlef

5th October 2010, 08:26 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	In my opinion this is a more recent manufactured keris, but well executed. Very nice. The price? The sky is the limit..........................

5th October 2010, 11:38 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Based upon what I can see in these photographs, and with my usual qualification that my opinion could change if I handled the piece, I believe that this is a keris from the period 1850 to 1930, but I do not think it is the product of an mpu, rather the product of a pande keris. The sunggingan work is only fair average quality. If the red slorok is kemalo that would date this dress to pre-WWII. The material used for selut and pendok is not mentioned, we do not know if it is gold nor its quality, or if it is gold plate, or if it is gilt. This can have a massive effect on value. If we assume that the pendok is gilded brass, and that the selut is gilded tin or copper, the price that this keris achieved is in fact quite low. If we assume that the pendok and selut are low carat gold, the price is very, very low. In fact, it was given away. Note that this is Solo dress, so the "prince of Jogja" spiel does not quite ring true, however, the colours used in the dress do indicate regal ownership. Whoever got this got a very good buy indeed.

6th October 2010, 04:21 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	I feel that all parts of this ensemble could come from the indicated time period, however, whether or not they all date from the same year I would not like to say. My feeling is that the wrongko could come from much later in the period, however, if, and I emphasise "if" the slorok is kemalo there is high probability, even certainty, that my opinion on dating the dress is accurate.I do not think that this dress could date from after WWII, not with the apparent patina + the kemalo pendok.But I'm going on photos on a screen, and we all know how misleading they can be. I have seen and handled keris that were given in times past to members of the Surakarta royal family. In nearly all cases these were very, very ordinary keris. The keris that are owned by members of a royal family may not necessarily be of what we would regard as "royal" quality. So yes, a member of a royal family could certainly own a keris that had not been made by an mpu. The fit in the photos does not look good, however, the opening in the wrongko seems to be correct for the gonjo, and the curve in the atasan seems to be correct for the curve in the gonjo. It may be that the blade was not pushed fully home, it may be that distortion has occurred in the wood, it may be that an insect has crawled into the gandar and created an obstruction. There are many possibilities. It is quite usual as a part of maintenance for the inside of an old scabbard to be cleaned thoroughly by removal of a very thin shaving of wood, this is often done when a new gandar is fitted, and it is also done when the inside of a wrongko becomes fouled and rotten. I feel that if this wrongko were to be properly cleaned the blade would sit correctly. However, as far as royal family ownership is concerned, the only indicator is the dress, and this is not necessarily a gaurantee, only an indicator of possibility.

6th October 2010, 01:27 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,126	Thanks Alan.

6th October 2010, 04:00 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Thank's all for comment. It have been my feeling that it is an older pice and have had the hope that noboby else see it! The red kemalo(?) slorok shows wear and the fittings have a fairly good quality. I think that the first two pictures shows the wilah stick out of the sheath a little bit by what reason ever and that the fit inside the sheat maybe is very well. A crying shame that my financial situation haven't been like this to bit more high! But I hope that a member of the forum have done this catch.

6th October 2010, 10:05 PM	#11
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	What about the selut and jejeran? Seems to me that the fit is somewhat off for such a piece, isn't it? Regards, Kai