Left Hand Dagger – Italian or English?

[Ron Anderson]

Hi

I've been told this Left Hand Dagger, though of the Italian style, might be English. It's a stilleto style 3-sided blade, and a very transitional sort of dagger, apparently approx 1600-1650.

The man who said this is no monkey. However, I'd like other opinions. So, English, Italian? What's the verdict?

If you don't know, just take a stab.

[fernando]

Probably Italian; but i wouldn't call it a left hand dagger
Let's see what others say .

[Ron Anderson]

Well, what's in a name?

I'm told it qualifies as a left hand dagger because it has a ring guard.

But perhaps it isn't.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ron Anderson

... Well, what's in a name?...

Often everything ; typology, for the matter.

Originally Posted by Ron Anderson

... I'm told it qualifies as a left hand dagger because it has a ring guard..

I guess the (absent) large quillons woud be more the issue, in a typical left hander

Originally Posted by Ron Anderson

... But perhaps it isn't.

As i said, let's see what others say about it.

[Ron Anderson]

Misericorde. Stilleto. Or Left Hand Dagger.

Or something in between.

[Jim McDougall]

Ok Ron, once more I enter the ring and indeed the guy you mention is no monkey. This is a pretty nice stiletto, and of 17th century into 18th style.
Egerton Castle ("Schools and Masters of Fencing", 1885, p.246) writes,
"...the dagger fell completely into disuse for fencing purposes, even in Spain and Italy , soon after the 17th century. In the later days of its existence it was of a much reduced type, approximate to that of the 'stiletti' and its guard consisting merely of straight quillons with a small ring".

At first glance, what this reminded me of was the Italian gunners daggers, also more known as 'bombardiers stilettos' for the number of these that are found in Venice with intricate numbers and calibration scales inscribed in thier blades. These were of 17th century with similar short quillons and triangular blade configurations. Most of the examples I have seen and described in the excellent article by Marcello Terenzi, "Gunners Daggers" ( 'Arms and Armor Journal ' Volume 1, 1973, ed. Robert Held, pp.170-79) have classical type pommels, of urn type often writhen, or of sculptured shapes. As noted, the blades are inscibed with numbers, often in mysterious or cryptic groups or figures.

Apparantly these 'gunners daggers' became well known in Italy in those times as they were permitted only to cannoneers or artillery personnel, often becoming a kind of badge of rank. Ordinary citizens were not permitted to carry stilletti or other types of 'insidious weapons', as these were the ideal weapon known to be used by assassins. While today we have 'gun control' in Italy in those times there was 'stiletto control'
Soon the idea came along to inscribe these mysterious calibrations on these daggers so that the carrier could claim its use as the invaluable tool/dagger of gunners if questioned about its presence on his person.

It appears that the calibrated scales were for determining caliber of the ball being used and matching it to the cannon bore. I had thought it was for measuring the powder charge, but that was incorrect...though the spiked blade was indeed used to puncture premeasured charge cartridges (cartoccio, hence the term 'cartridge) , and these were either heavy paper or canvas. Also the blade was ideal for clearing touchholes, and in the final gesture if overrun....to spike the cannon touchhole.

My thoughts are that since daggers typically corresponded stylistically to the companion sword, the ball type pommel here does seem very British. While I would presume this dagger to be Italian or Spanish, closely related provincially, the British gentry of course highly regarded thier fashions in many respects. While Italian stilettos, as noted, and seen in Petersons "Daggers and Fighting Knives of the Western World", (#58-62), seem to lean toward the decorative chiselled pommels in the 17th century, there are it seems several with somewhat spherical shapes, but not with the prominant capstan button.

I would speculate this dagger to be English and probably 18th century in traditional form, pending addition of other corresponding examples.

All the best,
Jim

[Ron Anderson]

Fantastic, thank you, Jim.