New Keris--Balinese?

Daniel · 21st April 2008, 12:49 AM

I ran across this keris at our local flea market. It reminds me quite a bit of a Balinese keris I had posted on this forum last year:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3954

This one is a bit larger (18" blade), and has 11 waves rather than 5. It seems reasonably well made, but the pamor looks rather odd to me. I'd appreciate any comments on what I have here.

Thanks, DD

David · 21st April 2008, 03:57 AM

Hi Daniel. Well, the dress is fairly recent, of "tourist" quality and damaged besides. The blade does seem fairly well formed, but i must agree that the pamor does looks strange, almost like it has been painted on. Perhaps someone thought they could make this look more interesting for sale by "creating" a better pamor for it.
If it were mine i would clean and re-stain it to see what i really had.

A. G. Maisey · 21st April 2008, 04:16 AM

This looks like "pamor batik" to me.

In the bottom pic you can quite clearly see the difference between the iron skin and the steel core, but the pamor is visible on the steel.

Pamor does not appear in a steel core, unless it is combined with iron, and the iron+contrasting material has over-run into the steel. That is not the case in this keris.

David · 21st April 2008, 04:36 AM

Alan, can you explain the technique used in creating "pamor batik"? It looks superficial in the photos, like something that was added later.

A. G. Maisey · 21st April 2008, 05:13 AM

Extraordinarily difficult and complex technique, David. Probably can only be done really well by a child under the age of 8 years, or an old lady with time on her hands.

Firstly draw the pamor pattern on the blade using hot wax. The tool used to do this is a canting, the tool that is used for drawing the pattern on cloth in order to create batik.

Then the blade is stained in the normal way, this of course is done by somebody skilled in this craft.

Finally the wax is removed by pouring boiling water over the blade.

Voila! Pamor batik!

Daniel · 21st April 2008, 09:12 PM

I appreciate the comments. I thought there was something terribly wrong when I saw the streaks running counter to the grain of the steel, but wasn't sure if this was a bad attempt at faking the layers or was some common decorative treatment that I had never heard of.

In any case, Under magnification, I can see that the bright lines stand slightly proud of the background (maybe .001" or thereabouts). I suppose if the wax resist was used, it protected the steel from being etched where the lines occur. I don't know if cleaning the blade at this point would make the lines disappear or not. I don't like the idea of using abrasives to remove them, so I may just stain them as best I can to make it less obtrusive. Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks for your help,

DD

Henk · 21st April 2008, 10:14 PM

Daniel,

I don't think you should stain the blade to make it less obtrusive. You stain the blade or not. But If you do, you have to clean the blade completely and remove the rust. When you etch the blade with warangan the blade will turn completely black without pamor, as Alan already said. Such pamorless keris is called kelengan.
I think this pamor batik is made to give the keris more value for the ignorant buyer (read tourist).
If I'm not mistaken the pamor in batik is pamor Bendo Segado.

A. G. Maisey · 22nd April 2008, 12:46 AM

Daniel, what you do with this keris probably depends upon your plans for it.

If you intend to sell it, give it a good soak with WD40, brush vigorously, and market it as is.

If you intend to keep it, polish the blade with powder sink cleaner, give it a couple of days in a pineapple juice bath, and restain it. Yes, it will not display brilliant contrasting pamor, but it will show a distinct colour difference between the steel core and the iron skin, that iron skin will show nice grain, in fact, it will come up a pretty decent, genuine old keris.

Not all old keris were works of art, and not all old keris had beautiful high contrast pamor. A keris such as yours could well have been more likely to see use as a weapon than a keris dripping with pizzazz.

In short, its an OK keris, the dress is horrible, but at least its got dress, and I would guess that you paid on the low side for it. Just keep your eyes open for genuine old dress, it sometimes comes up in ebay, and I guess in other places.Provided the wrongko is bigger than the dimensions of the blade, it can be made to fit. This keris is not worth the expense of placing a special order for new dress of the correct style.

Daniel · 22nd April 2008, 04:51 PM

Thank you all for your help. I do have little invested in it and would like to give the cleaning and restaining process a try--just for the fun and education of it.
I know there are recipes on this forum for making the arsenic bath. Does anyone have any suggestion on the best place to look for the necessary chemicals? I doubt my local Save-Rite drug store is likely to carry them.(or sell them to me)

DD

David · 22nd April 2008, 07:13 PM

Daniel, as you might imagine the cleaning and staining of keris has been much discussed on this forum. Here's a good thread link, but you might want to search further.
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html
Nope, you won't find Arsenic Trioxide at your corner druggist.

If you search on-line you can find it wholesale to chemical companies. I would try calling one of these wholesalers to find out who they sell to in your area. Then you might me able to convince that local company of your need and they might order it for you. It is obtainable, but it's not easy and it might take time and patience.

21st April 2008, 12:49 AM	#1
Daniel Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 16	New Keris--Balinese? I ran across this keris at our local flea market. It reminds me quite a bit of a Balinese keris I had posted on this forum last year: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3954 This one is a bit larger (18" blade), and has 11 waves rather than 5. It seems reasonably well made, but the pamor looks rather odd to me. I'd appreciate any comments on what I have here. Thanks, DD Attached Images

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21st April 2008, 03:57 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Hi Daniel. Well, the dress is fairly recent, of "tourist" quality and damaged besides. The blade does seem fairly well formed, but i must agree that the pamor does looks strange, almost like it has been painted on. Perhaps someone thought they could make this look more interesting for sale by "creating" a better pamor for it. If it were mine i would clean and re-stain it to see what i really had.

21st April 2008, 04:16 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	This looks like "pamor batik" to me. In the bottom pic you can quite clearly see the difference between the iron skin and the steel core, but the pamor is visible on the steel. Pamor does not appear in a steel core, unless it is combined with iron, and the iron+contrasting material has over-run into the steel. That is not the case in this keris.

21st April 2008, 04:36 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Alan, can you explain the technique used in creating "pamor batik"? It looks superficial in the photos, like something that was added later.

21st April 2008, 05:13 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Extraordinarily difficult and complex technique, David. Probably can only be done really well by a child under the age of 8 years, or an old lady with time on her hands. Firstly draw the pamor pattern on the blade using hot wax. The tool used to do this is a canting, the tool that is used for drawing the pattern on cloth in order to create batik. Then the blade is stained in the normal way, this of course is done by somebody skilled in this craft. Finally the wax is removed by pouring boiling water over the blade. Voila! Pamor batik!

21st April 2008, 09:12 PM	#6
Daniel Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 16	I appreciate the comments. I thought there was something terribly wrong when I saw the streaks running counter to the grain of the steel, but wasn't sure if this was a bad attempt at faking the layers or was some common decorative treatment that I had never heard of. In any case, Under magnification, I can see that the bright lines stand slightly proud of the background (maybe .001" or thereabouts). I suppose if the wax resist was used, it protected the steel from being etched where the lines occur. I don't know if cleaning the blade at this point would make the lines disappear or not. I don't like the idea of using abrasives to remove them, so I may just stain them as best I can to make it less obtrusive. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks for your help, DD

21st April 2008, 10:14 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Daniel, I don't think you should stain the blade to make it less obtrusive. You stain the blade or not. But If you do, you have to clean the blade completely and remove the rust. When you etch the blade with warangan the blade will turn completely black without pamor, as Alan already said. Such pamorless keris is called kelengan. I think this pamor batik is made to give the keris more value for the ignorant buyer (read tourist). If I'm not mistaken the pamor in batik is pamor Bendo Segado.

22nd April 2008, 12:46 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Daniel, what you do with this keris probably depends upon your plans for it. If you intend to sell it, give it a good soak with WD40, brush vigorously, and market it as is. If you intend to keep it, polish the blade with powder sink cleaner, give it a couple of days in a pineapple juice bath, and restain it. Yes, it will not display brilliant contrasting pamor, but it will show a distinct colour difference between the steel core and the iron skin, that iron skin will show nice grain, in fact, it will come up a pretty decent, genuine old keris. Not all old keris were works of art, and not all old keris had beautiful high contrast pamor. A keris such as yours could well have been more likely to see use as a weapon than a keris dripping with pizzazz. In short, its an OK keris, the dress is horrible, but at least its got dress, and I would guess that you paid on the low side for it. Just keep your eyes open for genuine old dress, it sometimes comes up in ebay, and I guess in other places.Provided the wrongko is bigger than the dimensions of the blade, it can be made to fit. This keris is not worth the expense of placing a special order for new dress of the correct style.

22nd April 2008, 04:51 PM	#9
Daniel Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 16	Thank you all for your help. I do have little invested in it and would like to give the cleaning and restaining process a try--just for the fun and education of it. I know there are recipes on this forum for making the arsenic bath. Does anyone have any suggestion on the best place to look for the necessary chemicals? I doubt my local Save-Rite drug store is likely to carry them.(or sell them to me) DD

22nd April 2008, 07:13 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Daniel, as you might imagine the cleaning and staining of keris has been much discussed on this forum. Here's a good thread link, but you might want to search further. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html Nope, you won't find Arsenic Trioxide at your corner druggist. If you search on-line you can find it wholesale to chemical companies. I would try calling one of these wholesalers to find out who they sell to in your area. Then you might me able to convince that local company of your need and they might order it for you. It is obtainable, but it's not easy and it might take time and patience.