Origin of this hilt type

Alam Shah · 22nd February 2007, 08:06 AM

Hi all, attached are pictures of a hilt type in the kerdas form.
Where is this form found? Where does it originated from?

The hilt cup is not original to the piece, (just a decoration).

Does anyone have information regarding this form, pictures of similar examples... Any help would be appreciated.

Alam Shah · 5th March 2007, 01:56 AM

More pictures to help identify this hilt type.

Based on the stocky size, I think it is a Penghulu (chieftain) type.

Marcokeris · 5th March 2007, 12:36 PM

Could be similar to handle type: "fish that is eating another little fish"

Battara · 6th March 2007, 01:42 AM

This looks Bugis to me.

Alam Shah · 6th March 2007, 04:46 AM

Marco,
An interesting thought and a good lead ... I'll check it out. Thanks.

Battara,
Yes... It does looks Bugis, thanks.
Any idea which region it was used or originated from?

Imho, the sheath, is a "chieftain" type, but the aesthetics are different.

Alam Shah.

Battara · 7th March 2007, 02:32 AM

Possibly Suluwesi?

Emanuel · 7th March 2007, 03:22 AM

Hello,

In the book Ragam Hulu Keris there is a very similar ukiran on page 75:
"116. Sulawesi Jawa Denam, merupakan bentuk standar di Sulawesi Selatan." It may support the Bugis/Sulawesi thought.

I will scan the page tomorrow and post it.

Regards,
Emanuel

Alam Shah · 7th March 2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Hello,

In the book Ragam Hulu Keris there is a very similar ukiran on page 75:
"116. Sulawesi Jawa Denam, merupakan bentuk standar di Sulawesi Selatan." It may support the Bugis/Sulawesi thought.

I will scan the page tomorrow and post it.

Regards,
Emanuel

Thanks Manolo, you've keen eyes

... There are many similarities between them. Looking at it closely, there are also many differences as well.

Emanuel · 8th March 2007, 04:21 AM

Yup, I do indeed see differences. Some more corroboration on the Sulawesi provenance comes via Frey's book...shows a good number of keris with ukiran very close (though maybe not quite identical

) to yours, labelled as Sulawesi-Bugis. Too bad he doesn't provide names for them...nice pics though.

Emanuel

Oops, I get it

you already know it's Bugis, but need specifics...

Alam Shah · 8th March 2007, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

... Some more corroboration on the Sulawesi provenance comes via Frey's book...shows a good number of keris with ukiran very close (though maybe not quite identical

) to yours, labelled as Sulawesi-Bugis. Too bad he doesn't provide names for them...nice pics though.

Thanks again Manolo for the effort.

The thing is, it's close but none is an exact match, at least in terms of design or aesthetics... hmmm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

... Oops, I get it

you already know it's Bugis, but need specifics...

Sorry

... I should have mentioned that I know it's probably Bugis, but from where? Sulawesi? Riau-Lingga? Sumatra? Peninsular? or elsewhere...

22nd February 2007, 08:06 AM	#1
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Origin of this hilt type Hi all, attached are pictures of a hilt type in the kerdas form. Where is this form found? Where does it originated from? The hilt cup is not original to the piece, (just a decoration). Does anyone have information regarding this form, pictures of similar examples... Any help would be appreciated. Attached Images Last edited by Alam Shah; 23rd February 2007 at 02:15 AM.

5th March 2007, 01:56 AM	#2
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	More pictures to help identify this hilt type. Based on the stocky size, I think it is a Penghulu (chieftain) type. Attached Images

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5th March 2007, 12:36 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Could be similar to handle type: "fish that is eating another little fish"

6th March 2007, 01:42 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	This looks Bugis to me.

6th March 2007, 04:46 AM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Marco, An interesting thought and a good lead ... I'll check it out. Thanks. Battara, Yes... It does looks Bugis, thanks. Any idea which region it was used or originated from? Imho, the sheath, is a "chieftain" type, but the aesthetics are different. Alam Shah.

7th March 2007, 02:32 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Possibly Suluwesi?

7th March 2007, 03:22 AM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, In the book Ragam Hulu Keris there is a very similar ukiran on page 75: "116. Sulawesi Jawa Denam, merupakan bentuk standar di Sulawesi Selatan." It may support the Bugis/Sulawesi thought. I will scan the page tomorrow and post it. Regards, Emanuel

8th March 2007, 04:21 AM	#9
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Yup, I do indeed see differences. Some more corroboration on the Sulawesi provenance comes via Frey's book...shows a good number of keris with ukiran very close (though maybe not quite identical ) to yours, labelled as Sulawesi-Bugis. Too bad he doesn't provide names for them...nice pics though. Emanuel Oops, I get it you already know it's Bugis, but need specifics...