Indonesian Sundang or Philippine Kris?

RobT · 25th June 2006, 10:25 PM

Hi All,
I am hoping that the keris/kris experts can help me to resolve my questions about this piece. The straight blade is short (only 21" [53.34cm]) but the hilt at 4.75" [12cm] is full size. The flat of the blade has a distal taper of about 3/8". The shaft of the blade appears to have been made by bending a high carbon steel rod into a V shape (for the tip and the edges) around a tapered core of lower carbon steel. What I find strange is the design of the ganja which is far more distinctly separate from the blade proper than I have ever seen on a Philippine kris. The grenning and the elephant's trunk are also more simply done than I have ever seen on a Philippine kris. Could the small size of the blade along with the unusual ganja indicate that this is a sundang from Indonesia rather than a Philippine kris? I should mention that the baca baca (or asing asing [I don't know which term is correct.]) are not original to the piece.
Sincerely,
RobT

Ian · 25th June 2006, 11:14 PM

Hi Rob:

I think this is an old Moro kris, probably from the Sulu Archipelago. The scabbard appears to be more recent than the blade. Others can elaborate more fully on the particular features of this kris.

Ian.

kai · 26th June 2006, 01:50 AM

Hello Rob,

I'm also thinking Sulu here - I'm not positive though.

The fretwork seems to be somewhat roughly done, especially at the lower gangya area (e. g. a few short-cuts). Possibly a "villager" model for a poor Moro warrior?

How about reetching the blade?

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 27th June 2006, 01:02 AM

I agree with Kai and Ian that it is a Sulu blade and a newer scabbard. I am also thinking that the hilt has been rewrapped several times - pieces possibly sold off in the past.

RobT · 27th June 2006, 02:13 AM

Hi All,
Thanks for the info. Three for Three for Sulu pretty much nails it.
Kai, the blade is lightly etched but I can't seem to get my camera to pick up damascus patterns. I don't know if this is the fault of the tool (Kodak DC 215 Zoom Digital Camera) or the workman.
Battara, the hilt wrap is vegetable fiber and, if not original, appears to have been there for a long time. When I dismounted the blade prior to replacing the missing baca baca (or asing asing), I found vestages of the old baca baca keeper strips peeking out from below the hilt wrap. Interestingly enough, there is also a brass ferrule below the braided rattan bands. Judging by the verdigris on the brass, I'd say the ferrule, if not original, was there for a long time also. Given the simplicity of the blade, I would be surprised if the hilt was ever ornamented ornately enough to have pieces that could have been sold off.
Sincerely,
RobT

25th June 2006, 10:25 PM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 487	Indonesian Sundang or Philippine Kris? Hi All, I am hoping that the keris/kris experts can help me to resolve my questions about this piece. The straight blade is short (only 21" [53.34cm]) but the hilt at 4.75" [12cm] is full size. The flat of the blade has a distal taper of about 3/8". The shaft of the blade appears to have been made by bending a high carbon steel rod into a V shape (for the tip and the edges) around a tapered core of lower carbon steel. What I find strange is the design of the ganja which is far more distinctly separate from the blade proper than I have ever seen on a Philippine kris. The grenning and the elephant's trunk are also more simply done than I have ever seen on a Philippine kris. Could the small size of the blade along with the unusual ganja indicate that this is a sundang from Indonesia rather than a Philippine kris? I should mention that the baca baca (or asing asing [I don't know which term is correct.]) are not original to the piece. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

25th June 2006, 11:14 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Moro kris Hi Rob: I think this is an old Moro kris, probably from the Sulu Archipelago. The scabbard appears to be more recent than the blade. Others can elaborate more fully on the particular features of this kris. Ian.

27th June 2006, 02:13 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 487	Sulu it is then Hi All, Thanks for the info. Three for Three for Sulu pretty much nails it. Kai, the blade is lightly etched but I can't seem to get my camera to pick up damascus patterns. I don't know if this is the fault of the tool (Kodak DC 215 Zoom Digital Camera) or the workman. Battara, the hilt wrap is vegetable fiber and, if not original, appears to have been there for a long time. When I dismounted the blade prior to replacing the missing baca baca (or asing asing), I found vestages of the old baca baca keeper strips peeking out from below the hilt wrap. Interestingly enough, there is also a brass ferrule below the braided rattan bands. Judging by the verdigris on the brass, I'd say the ferrule, if not original, was there for a long time also. Given the simplicity of the blade, I would be surprised if the hilt was ever ornamented ornately enough to have pieces that could have been sold off. Sincerely, RobT

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26th June 2006, 01:50 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Rob, I'm also thinking Sulu here - I'm not positive though. The fretwork seems to be somewhat roughly done, especially at the lower gangya area (e. g. a few short-cuts). Possibly a "villager" model for a poor Moro warrior? How about reetching the blade? Regards, Kai

27th June 2006, 01:02 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I agree with Kai and Ian that it is a Sulu blade and a newer scabbard. I am also thinking that the hilt has been rewrapped several times - pieces possibly sold off in the past.