Portugese cup hilt?

kronckew · 30th January 2019, 09:46 PM

Just acquired this sword, should be with me next week, Vendor called it 'Unknown', But I remembered a very similar sword Fernando posted HERE

Sword is roughly 1 metre long, the blade is 82 cm. Cup appears to be held onto the guard by two screws or rivets (what little i can see I suspect rivets) - will know which on arrival, the tail end appears to be tabbed and peened into a slot in the knuckle bow as does Fernando's. The knuckle bow - crossguard join appears to have been repaired.

The blade appears to have some indistinct marks on the fairly long ricasso area and may have some well-worn decoration along the blade. Looks quite sharp and pointy

Possibly a slightly rougher version of fernando's, more towards the end of their useage period?

Any suggestions on age? Is it Portugese or other? maybe an oldish victorian fake?

fernando · 30th January 2019, 10:09 PM

How in hell, Wayne ?
The sword in the link is essentially Spanish !
... and the present one is also Spanish ... like; i mean the blade, and not only, looks like a phoney. But what do i know ?

.

midelburgo · 30th January 2019, 11:38 PM

I think it is a Toledo souvenir version from 1960s of the so-called model 1796 Spanish cavalry trooper sword, which actual existence is in doubt for many.

http://hoploteca.blogspot.com/2014/0...delo-1796.html

(the page is in Spanish, but it has a translator device on the upper left corner)

I hope you can send it back. Because of the lack of distal diminution, balance is usually horrible in these wallhangers, not good even for poking around.

kronckew · 31st January 2019, 08:56 AM

Ah, well, had some suspicions with the long ricasso. wasn't expensive... At least we have it on record here as a fake for future buyers.

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2019, 05:21 PM

Good attitude Wayne.
At least this is a nice looking sword for what it is, and does make a good wall hanger in office etc. I've gotten stuck with some real 'tin' over the years, especially from a mid west catalog dealer years back (his name shall not be mentioned but all us old timers know who he is

.

fernando · 31st January 2019, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... At least this is a nice looking sword for what it is, and does make a good wall hanger in office etc. I've gotten stuck with some real 'tin' over the years, especially from a mid west catalog dealer years back (his name shall not be mentioned but all us old timers know who he is

.

No affront Jim but, perhaps Wayne finds that his office walls are too few and to good to hang such a 'nice looking' dud. But take no wrong interpretation from my crude words

. It is just that we all human dudes are susceptible to behave differently; i just become deeply frustrated when i am scammed. In my peculiar character, when i acquire something that ends up being a fake, i either return it (often a hard or unfeasible task), or offer it to some non-collector, after telling him such is a dud, or throw it in the garbage bag, which i did one ... or twice.

Jim McDougall · 31st January 2019, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

No affront Jim but, perhaps Wayne finds that his office walls are too few and to good to hang such a 'nice looking' dud. But take no wrong interpretation from my crude words

. It is just that we all human dudes are susceptible to behave differently; i just become deeply frustrated when i am scammed. In my peculiar character, when i acquire something that ends up being a fake, i either return it (often a hard or unfeasible task), or offer it to some non-collector, after telling him such is a dud, or throw it in the garbage bag, which i did one ... or twice.

None taken

and actually I agree somewhat, and when I have gotten 'royally fleeced'..I admit I did not take it calmly...….but after exhausting whatever resolution or remedy I tried unsuccessfully......it was time to just classify the matter into 'lesson learned' ( and I got the scars to prove it!).

I have known many guys who kept these 'misteakes' in a kind of 'hall of shame'. ...and as Wayne has generously offered...….as with this one, standing as a 'lesson learned' for others. Personally I have always believed that the knowledge and experiences shared here are to help those who are either in 'the game' or just beginning, and hopefully better their chances.

M ELEY · 31st January 2019, 10:30 PM

Yes, we have all had high hopes and received a few of these over the years. I'n glad, Wayne, that you didn't spend a small fortune. I like to use these types in real practice, slashing at tree limbs and stabbing water melons (when my neighbors aren't watching, that is-

). So often, we have a real antique that we would love to swing around, but we know better. Kill a couple of shrubs with it to get out your frustration and you will learn to like it for what it is!

30th January 2019, 09:46 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Portugese cup hilt? Just acquired this sword, should be with me next week, Vendor called it 'Unknown', But I remembered a very similar sword Fernando posted HERE Sword is roughly 1 metre long, the blade is 82 cm. Cup appears to be held onto the guard by two screws or rivets (what little i can see I suspect rivets) - will know which on arrival, the tail end appears to be tabbed and peened into a slot in the knuckle bow as does Fernando's. The knuckle bow - crossguard join appears to have been repaired. The blade appears to have some indistinct marks on the fairly long ricasso area and may have some well-worn decoration along the blade. Looks quite sharp and pointy Possibly a slightly rougher version of fernando's, more towards the end of their useage period? Any suggestions on age? Is it Portugese or other? maybe an oldish victorian fake? Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 30th January 2019 at 10:01 PM.

30th January 2019, 11:38 PM	#3
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 257	I think it is a Toledo souvenir version from 1960s of the so-called model 1796 Spanish cavalry trooper sword, which actual existence is in doubt for many. http://hoploteca.blogspot.com/2014/0...delo-1796.html (the page is in Spanish, but it has a translator device on the upper left corner) I hope you can send it back. Because of the lack of distal diminution, balance is usually horrible in these wallhangers, not good even for poking around. Last edited by midelburgo; 31st January 2019 at 12:36 PM.

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30th January 2019, 10:09 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	How in hell, Wayne ? The sword in the link is essentially Spanish ! ... and the present one is also Spanish ... like; i mean the blade, and not only, looks like a phoney. But what do i know ? .

31st January 2019, 08:56 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Ah, well, had some suspicions with the long ricasso. wasn't expensive... At least we have it on record here as a fake for future buyers.

31st January 2019, 05:21 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,952	Good attitude Wayne. At least this is a nice looking sword for what it is, and does make a good wall hanger in office etc. I've gotten stuck with some real 'tin' over the years, especially from a mid west catalog dealer years back (his name shall not be mentioned but all us old timers know who he is .

31st January 2019, 10:30 PM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Yes, we have all had high hopes and received a few of these over the years. I'n glad, Wayne, that you didn't spend a small fortune. I like to use these types in real practice, slashing at tree limbs and stabbing water melons (when my neighbors aren't watching, that is- ). So often, we have a real antique that we would love to swing around, but we know better. Kill a couple of shrubs with it to get out your frustration and you will learn to like it for what it is!