Help on Dating and finding informations on a early medieval pattern welded sword

Richard R. · 10th October 2014, 06:04 PM

Hello,

This sword has been dated by the auction house as 9th or 10th Century. My first impression was that this blade could date from the 5th to 6th Century. So I hope to find further information’s (possible dating, origin, etc.) and pictures of similar swords to compare.

The blade shows signs of two twisted rods in the upper two third of the blade center, changing into straight lines towards the point.

Richard Rechsteiner

cornelistromp · 12th October 2014, 10:25 AM

very strange that no one responds to this thread on a forum that addresses vikingsword.com !!!

I'm more at home in Swords between 1000-1600, but I will make an attempt.

the sword is of Petersen type M and wheeler type I.
this type can be dated between the middle of the ninth century and the middle of the tenth century.

it is after Petersen type H the most common sword type of the Viking Age.
The origin is probably eastern norway, here are most specimens recorded found.
Petersen describes that 198 specimens have been found in Norway, only 2 of them were pattern welded. CF swords of the viking age page 84.
so your sword is rare.

The blade corresponds to Geibig's classification type 1. (Chronology and principal styles of double-edged sword blades of the Viking age.)
and corresponds to the period of sword, the ninth century, I do not expect the blade to be much older, but it can be.

about the authenticity of this sword unfortunately I can not say anything meaningful based on the pictures alone.

hope it helps.

best,
Jasper

Richard R. · 12th October 2014, 04:36 PM

Hello Jasper,

Thank you for your information’s. The authenticity of the sword was confirmed by the expert for arms and armour of the auction house.

More information's on the sword:

Overall length: 87.4cm
Blade length: 76.6cm
Lower guard (crossguard) length: 10cm
Upper guard length: 8.5cm
Blade width under lower guard: 5.5cm
No fuller!

Unfortunately I don’t have Petersen Publication on Viking swords. Could you send me a copy of Page 84 where I could see the same type of swords?

Regards,
Richard

fernando · 12th October 2014, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

... very strange that no one responds to this thread on a forum that addresses vikingsword.com !!!
...

Maybe others had no time to see the thread yet ?

I know absolutely nothing about these (or other

) swords but i happen to have Ian Pierce's work and, Petersen type M and Wheeler type I, corresponds evidently to this example, as you expertly noted.
But obviously is not enough to have books on things; one has to know by mind where to look for them

cornelistromp · 13th October 2014, 08:10 AM

Thanks for the dimensions.
the parallel blade without fuller of length 76 cm is indeed under geibig type 1.

f/m the sword looks very good and patterns are almost impossible to forge, but also an expert of auction house can only say something definitive about a Viking sword with a metalurgic report in hand.

attached pages from Ian Peirce. swords of the Viking age.

Richard R. · 13th October 2014, 09:30 AM

Hello Jasper,

Thank you for your help, the attached Pictures and graphics.

Richard

cornelistromp · 13th October 2014, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard R.

Hello Jasper,

Thank you for your help, the attached Pictures and graphics.

Richard

welcome Richard

buendia · 14th October 2014, 10:01 PM

Where can one buy such beauties?

Have you considered to make an Xray at the dentist`s lab?

10th October 2014, 06:04 PM	#1
Richard R. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26	Help on Dating and finding informations on a early medieval pattern welded sword Hello, This sword has been dated by the auction house as 9th or 10th Century. My first impression was that this blade could date from the 5th to 6th Century. So I hope to find further information’s (possible dating, origin, etc.) and pictures of similar swords to compare. The blade shows signs of two twisted rods in the upper two third of the blade center, changing into straight lines towards the point. Richard Rechsteiner Attached Images

12th October 2014, 04:36 PM	#3
Richard R. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26	Hello Jasper, Thank you for your information’s. The authenticity of the sword was confirmed by the expert for arms and armour of the auction house. More information's on the sword: Overall length: 87.4cm Blade length: 76.6cm Lower guard (crossguard) length: 10cm Upper guard length: 8.5cm Blade width under lower guard: 5.5cm No fuller! Unfortunately I don’t have Petersen Publication on Viking swords. Could you send me a copy of Page 84 where I could see the same type of swords? Regards, Richard Last edited by Richard R.; 12th October 2014 at 05:21 PM.

13th October 2014, 08:10 AM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Thanks for the dimensions. the parallel blade without fuller of length 76 cm is indeed under geibig type 1. f/m the sword looks very good and patterns are almost impossible to forge, but also an expert of auction house can only say something definitive about a Viking sword with a metalurgic report in hand. attached pages from Ian Peirce. swords of the Viking age. Attached Images

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12th October 2014, 10:25 AM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	very strange that no one responds to this thread on a forum that addresses vikingsword.com !!! I'm more at home in Swords between 1000-1600, but I will make an attempt. the sword is of Petersen type M and wheeler type I. this type can be dated between the middle of the ninth century and the middle of the tenth century. it is after Petersen type H the most common sword type of the Viking Age. The origin is probably eastern norway, here are most specimens recorded found. Petersen describes that 198 specimens have been found in Norway, only 2 of them were pattern welded. CF swords of the viking age page 84. so your sword is rare. The blade corresponds to Geibig's classification type 1. (Chronology and principal styles of double-edged sword blades of the Viking age.) and corresponds to the period of sword, the ninth century, I do not expect the blade to be much older, but it can be. about the authenticity of this sword unfortunately I can not say anything meaningful based on the pictures alone. hope it helps. best, Jasper

13th October 2014, 09:30 AM	#6
Richard R. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26	Hello Jasper, Thank you for your help, the attached Pictures and graphics. Richard

14th October 2014, 10:01 PM	#8
buendia Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Silesia, Poland Posts: 41	Where can one buy such beauties? Have you considered to make an Xray at the dentist`s lab?