Any Amazon collectors?

[fireiceviper]

So i bought another lot yesterday, it was found in a thrift store then purchased by me.

I'm not entirely sure if it's all from the same region (i dont think so!) but there is a nice bow and very nice arrows! also a wooden staff/spear made from the hardest wood i have ever seen and decorated with feathers.

Then there is a strange bowl made from i believe a palm seed husk? and also a strange wood stick (no clue) and a paddle (looks tourist to me)

[fireiceviper]

more pictures

[fireiceviper]

and more

[Tim Simmons]

I like the spear. Looks like it is very nice to have in your hands. What a great lot.

[fireiceviper]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I like the spear. Looks like it is very nice to have in your hands. What a great lot.

Thank you, it really feels great, very solid. one thing you might not directly notice in the pictures is that the bottom part of the spear is actually almost square while as you move up towards the tip the wood gets rounded.

Also i really like the fishing arrow and the blunt (for birds?) arrow although all of the arrows are missing there feathers (at the bottom).

Still no clue what the twisted piece of wood, the bowl or the paddle is

For the rest i'm thinking brazil/guyana/suriname area don't know a tribe yet but leaning more towards Surinam (like the last piece although very different/other tribe) as it was a form dutch colony and this was found in the Netherlands.

[fireiceviper]

Found a great resource for amazon weapons, its the American museum of national history database it is filled with beautiful clubs and others

Hope it can help someone http://anthro.amnh.org/south

[Tim Simmons]

Great adding to the thread. This has turned from a small inquiry into a massive thread.

My new club has arrived. Heavy for the size. The cotton decoration needed to be tidied up, very please with it.

On close inspection with a 10x loop the cotton binding originally filled the space between the handle binding with feathers and the other binding. There is the remains of a mastic that shows the imprint of the binding. This would cover a natural fissure in the wood, nothing to do with binding a broken club. The cotton is very thin and light weight.

[Tim Simmons]

The trouble with trying to restored lost cotton on these older Amazon clubs is getting a match. When you see hand spun cotton next to machine cotton, the difference is quite jarring to the eye. All my searches to buy handle spun cotton thread have been unsuccessful. All I can find is a sort of fancy art 'n' craft version

[Tim Simmons]

Finally got the right kind of hand spun raw cotton. I had to unravel one ply from the yarn and then sort of re-spin the yarn between thumbs and fore fingers. The match is near perfect through 10x loop except the colour being newer. To give the whipping some resilience, I smothered mucilage glue all over. This would be much the same as the mastic originally used. Any Amazonian native would re-bind their club as and when needed.

[Tim Simmons]

This is where my latest example come from. My example is 4cm shorter.
http://americanindian.si.edu/searchc...id=Club&page=2

[fireiceviper]

I realy like it!

I was at a fair today (tribal art) and saw 4 war clubs from the amazon; 2 macana's and a long broad thatched one and a ceremonial one.

I was surprised nobody knew the other names for macana though (boutou, aputu or pootoo)

[VANDOO]

PICTURES #1 THRU #6 ARE OF TWO ITEMS A CEREMONIAL SPEAR/ CLUB USUALLY CARRIED BY THE CHIEF OR PRIEST OF THE TRIBE. AND A MORE TRADITIONAL FORM OF DOUBLE ENDED CEREMONIAL SPEAR. BOTH SPEARS AROUND 6 FEET LONG OF BLACK PALM WOOD ONE COATED IN VARNISH.
THE LARGEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE FROM THE TRIBE ARE AROUND ALDEA BRAZIL. THE TRIBE IS POLITICALLY ACTIVE TODAY TRYING TO KEEP THEIR LANDS AND TO PROTECT THE TRIBE. PICTURES #7 THRU #12 TRIBAL OR SPIRITUAL LEADERS OR TUWE OF THE TRIBE ONE HOLDING A SPEAR /CLUB SIMILAR TO MINE. TRIBAL GROUPS WITH COMMON POLE CLUBS DURING A CEREMONIAL DANCE.

[VANDOO]

THE HUNI KUIN ALSO KNOWN AS KAXINAWA TRIBE WERE DISCOVERED IN 1948 AND THERE ARE AROUND 2500 IN THE TRIBE TODAY AND THEY ARE TRYING TO KEEP THEIR CULTURE AND SPIRITUAL BELIEFS. MANY AMAZON TRIBES HAVE VANISHED OR LOST THEIR CULTURES IN THE AMAZON TUWE ALSO HELPS ORGANIZE AND PROTECT THEM THRU THE ASSOCIATION.
#1. PICTURE OF SPEAR HEAD. #2. MEETING OF ASSOCIATION OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WITH TUWE OF THE HUNI KUIN TRIBE AND DALI LAMA OF TIBET #3. CEREMONIAL DANCE AT VILLAGE.

[VANDOO]

FIRST CONTACT OCTOBER 1996 AROUND 200 MEMBERS IN TWO GROUPS TODAY. LIVE IN WESTERN AMAZON BASIN IN JAVARI VALLEY BRAZIL. THE TRIBE PREFERS TO BE CALLED DSLALA NOT THE OTHER FORIGNER NAMES FOR THEM. LARGE CLUBS AND BLOW PIPES ARE THEIR WEAPONS AND THERE HAVE BEEN VIOLENT ENCOUNTERS WITH OUTSIDERS. THE CLUB IS VERY LARGE AND HEAVY 55 INCHES LONG, THREE QUARTERS INCH DIAMETER AT BUTT END AND 2&1/2 IN. DIAMETER AT STRIKING END. THE STRIKING END IS ROUNDED IN SHAPE LIKE A BASEBALL BAT. THIS EXAMPLE WAS MADE WITH PRIMATIVE TOOLS IN THE JUNGLES COLLECTED IN THE EARLY DAYS OF CONTACT.

[VANDOO]

HERE IS A LINK TO A POST ON A NICE VARIATIATION OF A KAYAPO TRIBE, CLUB AND A COUPLE OF PICTURES FOR THE REFRENCE.http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19693

[fireiceviper]

Found this in an ethnographic dealers gallery, he gave me more then a fair price for it.. collected before the 70s-80s

[VANDOO]

A VERY NICE EXAMPLE WITH ALL THE TRIBAL DECORATIONS STILL INTACT AND IN EXCELLENT SHAPE. LIKELY MADE FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS OR CEREMONIES OR FOR A SYMBOL TO BE CARRIED BY SOMEONE OF IMPORTANCE OR BEING HONORED BY THE TRIBE. DID THEY HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON WHICH COUNTRY OR TRIBE? THANKS FOR POSTING

[Tim Simmons]

I have this information on this spear taken from " AMAZONIEN Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen, Museums der Volkerkunde Dresden 2009 " The spear illustrated was collected from the Mundurucu. It is listed as ceremonial spear 1970. I think you have a nice thing. If kept well feathers can last centuries.

[fireiceviper]

According to the American museum of national History its from the RIKBAKTSÁ tribe in brazil. so now we have 2 tribes


http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...40.1%2F%205738

[Tim Simmons]

From a little research it seems that RIKBAKTSÁ is more of a culture language region rather than a specific people. Rather like the different but related peoples of the EU that speak French. This map from Wikipedia of the RIKBAKTSÁ "tribe" is in the same vicinity as the German publication so they are both correct.

[Tim Simmons]

This is my latest amazon club. From the Krikati of Maranhao state Brazil. The same state as the Ka'apor club last post. When I have it I will show more details and comparison with others.

[fireiceviper]

Looks nice, can't wait for better pictures... is the lack of a point on flat clubs a region thing?

[fireiceviper]

Also have some new arrows on the wall, the cotton string ones look more recent.

Regions unknown,

[Tim Simmons]

Nice collection.

[VANDOO]

A NICE COLLECTION INDEED. QUITE A NICE SELECTION OF ARROWS FROM FISHING TO STUN TYPES. IN YOUR LAST PICTURE THERE ARE 3 CLUBS ON THE WALL DO YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON THE MIDDLE ONE WITH THE NOTCHES? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A PICTURE OF IT TO COMPARE WITH SOMETHING I HAVE THAT LOOKS SIMILAR. THANKS BARRY

[Tim Simmons]

Finally here. Very interesting sword club. Too me the timber looks rather exotic. I think I might have been very lucky that it past customs {wood with a Brazil postage mark}. Dense heavy hard wood with an unusual colour. Now the Amazon collection is growing the regional styles are starting to be apparent. The club is 93cm long and the main part is 4cm x 3cm with a two hand grip. It is rather like a heavy bokken without a curve. Not old but clearly not new either, the distal end has been it contact with the ground through use as a walking staff. As this type of material is not "antique" and little understood while market demand is low it is not expensive. I have to ask as the Krikati is some low thousands of soles, who else has one? and how common? The geometric form is curious and the precision around the pommel is nice. It has the look of a constructivist sculpture with pure form and geometric clean lines.

[fireiceviper]

@ Tim Simmons

Love The club, really has that nice heavy look to it, probably super rare (but we wont know that in lets say 50 years...) does the wood almost feel like plastic because of its density?

@ VANDOO

It is actually the one from a few posts back! but I've made some better pictures...


Edit: the pictures are in the wrong order......

[Tim Simmons]

My latest, Kayabi. It is new-ish made for festival. They can be bigger but very hard to find. The pattern is cotton and cane. The cotton is painted with a resin so it is made hard and red coloured. Even in Indian lands fights most happen just as in our world. Shown with some Melanesian clubs of the same size.

[VANDOO]

A VERY NICE ATTRACTIVE CLUB TIM. ALSO GREAT TO SEE A PICTURE OF A TRIBESMAN WITH ONE.
FIERCEVIPER THANKS FOR THE PICTURES OF THE SPEAR WITH THE NOTCHES THE SPEAR POINT AND PROTRUSIONS REMINDS ME OF A FORM USED BY THE KAXINAWA TRIBE AKA. HUNI KUIN FROM BRAZIL.

#1 AND #2. A CEREMONIAL CLUB OR STAFF FROM THE AMAZON 34.5 IN. LONG X 1.5 IN DIAMETER. IT HAS SIMILAR NOTCHES BUT I AM NOT SURE WHAT GROUP IT COMES FROM OR OF ITS USE.

#3 thru #6 A SHORT DANCE SPEAR KAXINAWA TRIBE 26.5 IN. LONG

[fireiceviper]

@Tim Simmons

Wow like it it! but i like the small melanesian club (new caeldonian?) more! very nice!

@Vandoo

Thanks Vandoo, very similar indeed! i'm gonna research that region more,thank you! I also found another angle I came across some pictures (of a similar style spear with the same type of feather work as mine from the surinam region (its a stock photo site so i can't copy it or post it here).

The small dance spear I've seen before but i have some doubts about it...looks a little bit crude in comparison to the rest, but i could be wrong!