Translation needed on Kilij koftgari

Rivkin · 30th May 2005, 10:21 PM

I would disagree with Shia attribution - Caucasus is almost entirely Sunni (and the only country with a very significant Shia influence is christian Armenia), but "No sword, but Zulfakar, no warrior but Ali" and other similar slogans are _very_ popular among caucasian smiths - at first it seemed strange to me as well, and I thought it to be something that was inherited through Iranian occupation of Dagestan, however now I just accept it as a fact that I don't know how to explain.

Concerning semitic religions - I would not say so, they are quite different (when you talk about Baal worshipping vs. Islam for example etc.). It's more the fact that islam, christianty and judaism simple descend from one religion - judaism or if you are a muslim, like those who tought me, - descend from the original islam, later changed by jews and christians.

Therefore some of the symbolics is being shared, but specifically when it comes to the hexagram:

1. It's a magical symbol, for Solomon was considered to command the multitudes of demons.

2. It's extremely easy to draw, and therefore it has a great advantage over other symbols - if you read the bible, there are many symbols god specifically designated to identify jewish tribes, but none of them is in use even by the jews today, because they are extremely hard to draw.
Same story with the crescent and the cross - these symbols became most popular in part because they are very easy to draw.
Same goes for soviet and nazi symbolics - those were selected with one specific requirement - they should be easy to draw for the masses (and what can be easier than a pentagramm or a zig-rune ?)

3. Another solomonic symbol is a pentagramm, and this symbol is traditionally specifically associated with the control over the world of demons, and therefore even more related to the occult.

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30th May 2005, 10:21 PM	#7
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I would disagree with Shia attribution - Caucasus is almost entirely Sunni (and the only country with a very significant Shia influence is christian Armenia), but "No sword, but Zulfakar, no warrior but Ali" and other similar slogans are _very_ popular among caucasian smiths - at first it seemed strange to me as well, and I thought it to be something that was inherited through Iranian occupation of Dagestan, however now I just accept it as a fact that I don't know how to explain. Concerning semitic religions - I would not say so, they are quite different (when you talk about Baal worshipping vs. Islam for example etc.). It's more the fact that islam, christianty and judaism simple descend from one religion - judaism or if you are a muslim, like those who tought me, - descend from the original islam, later changed by jews and christians. Therefore some of the symbolics is being shared, but specifically when it comes to the hexagram: 1. It's a magical symbol, for Solomon was considered to command the multitudes of demons. 2. It's extremely easy to draw, and therefore it has a great advantage over other symbols - if you read the bible, there are many symbols god specifically designated to identify jewish tribes, but none of them is in use even by the jews today, because they are extremely hard to draw. Same story with the crescent and the cross - these symbols became most popular in part because they are very easy to draw. Same goes for soviet and nazi symbolics - those were selected with one specific requirement - they should be easy to draw for the masses (and what can be easier than a pentagramm or a zig-rune ?) 3. Another solomonic symbol is a pentagramm, and this symbol is traditionally specifically associated with the control over the world of demons, and therefore even more related to the occult.