an insight into museums and collections

[B.I]

it seems i've hit a real nerve, and its good we all share the same views.
thank you michal for your insight, and none of us would dream this could ever happen in your museum :-)
jens and i discussed this some time ago, when the V&A put their weapons away. but, their reasons were valid and the main criteria of every museum is to keep the doors open, and in doing so they have to cater for the popular demands.
i hope no-one feels that all english museums are like this. far from it. the main institutions are passionate about their conservation and the pieces, even in storage, are well looked after.
however, every town has a museum of sorts, and every city has a number of them. with smaller cities, the museums tend to share teams. most will not have an arms or military department. and so, any arms or militaria will be thrown under the jurisdiction of another department. the head of this department/curator will be just as keen to look after what they have, but as its not their field of knowledge/possibility of being on display/funds or team to look after them they eventually fall into disrepair.
each piece i pulled out i showed to the curator, who promised it would be looked into, which i believe. but, the impression i got was the rest would have a long wait.
also, another point that was made. i'm sure the museum will gladly give the collection to another museum, but who is going to take it? the major institutions have enough trouble looking after their own. smaller museums dont have the time/space or experience to house these pieces so they are stuck with them.
also, majore pieces were sold off years ago, that i'm sure now woul dbe looked after and displayed. i know of a number of collections that dont exist anymore, that had items that were of national importance. at the time, however, no one was interested.
also, there is no way someone can walk off the street and offer to conserve them. i know from my own experience, there are enough collectors who claim to know what they are doing and destroy weapons in a shoddy attempt to restore them. (please know, i'm not hinting at forum collectors, but the novice at arms fairs). so, maybe less damage would occur in leaving them as they are in the hope that someone in-house can be persuaded to show an interest.

a good example, but will have to be a little vague. i know a museum with a large collection of arms. in the department i am interested in , there is no head, but it is overseen by other departments who, although very competent, dont have a real interest in the pieces in this part of the collection. there is a guy in administration, that has a personal passion for part of history, that runs alongside my own interests. and so, he spends all his spare time researching the arms collection, which includes updating the inventory, helping with the conservation and putting up with me now and then :-)

so, we can only hope to inspire, conspire and collude with all others with the same interest and hope things change for the better.

[B.I]

as jens rightly says, trying to 'provoke' and interest back may be the only way. again, the tournament thing works, but only in a museum that specialises in the 'martial' aspect of history. the main reason the royal armouries left london, is to regain space and set up a proper museum. they charged admission at first, and found the site they had chosen was not easily accessable to anyone, except locals. it was too far a trip for tourists coming to london. also, the high prices in admission were needed to recover funds and expenses, which just meant fewer people turned up. now, they have abolished the entrance fees and are funded by the government (i think thats how it works). they now offer a service, in the education of the surrounding schools and its a great museum to visit, with much to do and to attract kids and interest (knights fighting etc).
but, a museum that specialises in dinosaurs (for eg) that has a large store of donated weapons collections would be less inclined unfortunately. also, in london (and other cities) there is no space at all.
i fear the answer is not in us (our interests are already confirmed), but in the general public who need to be inticed.
in the V&A, versace attracts more interest than tipu or ranjit singh.

[Rivkin]

Dear Michal,

I'm sorry if my posts sounded like too much like an accusation - I understand the situation with funds, manpower etc.
I also understand that the fact that history departments tend to teach numismatics and ceramics but not "weapon's archeology" (judging by the number of books published in Poland things can be different there ?) together with all kind of probabilities (like a specialist in art trying to manage arms and armor department) contributes to the disasterous situation.

I also understand that collectors make mistakes constantly. In fact I strongly belive that for a lot of weapons more or less precise attribution is impossible. Concerning kindjals - I think there are may be two experts in the whole world who seriously studied them.

With all these, I probably should try to reiterate my original ideas:

1. Most of the arms and armor exhibitions use the "art museum" model - existing collection is arranged according to time periods, with no additional materials (photographs, explanations, models, maps etc.) displayed.

I think way more effective would be the "science and industry museum" model - limited number of items, accompinied by massive demonstrations and explanations.

2. I truly believe that items in small museums are nearly doomed - it's not only weapons, same things happens with painting etc. - extremely harsh storage requirements, multiplied by the cost of restoration, multiplied by the poverty of local museums leads to problems.

3. I have to be honest - I don't believe in that museums follow the public's taste, and above all are trying to maximize admission. Not so recently I've been to Chicago Art Institute. It had an exhibit of "installations" - on one wall it was basically a bunch of _empty_ frames, on another wall - a few photographs of water in some sort of pond I guess, taken 1s apart.

Now I know I come from the family of "realists"-artists, who believe that "modern art" is insanity, so I'm not the most objective person to talk about the issue, but empty frames caused me to collapse on the floor from laughter.

Same feelings are shared by the majority of "simple masses" attending these exhibits, but nevertheless the fashion trend of "post-modern art" does not die out, because the museum and art establishment is hellbent on supporting it.

May be it's a false impression (I'm really not the one to know), but arms and armor usually are not considered "cool" by the mainstream museum community.

4. Concerning collectors helping with the cnservation of museum's collections - I don't think it's really a workable solution:
a. There are very few collectors qualified to polish something (because there are very few collectors period).
b. What happens is a collector makes a mistake ? Should he be held responsible for the damage ? What are the standards imposed on "conservation" - do we "clean" the blades or we just remove the active rust ? Do we try to "conserve" japanese weapons (you know what the japanese community will think about this idea), or SEA mafia will stick to keris/dha, some other people to shamshirs etc. ? Very soon we arrive to the idea that there is one guy (or girl) who is qualified to work with the weapons of one particular class.

5. What I believe can be greatly benefitial is futhering (in most cases - creating) a cooperation in between of us as _united_ collectors-individuals and at least most important museums. First goal I would say is cataloging - photographing and describing collections in full, so we clearly know - what we have, in what condition. Then the questions - how it can be helped, and how it can be used (displayed) can be addressed.

Again I would point to the japanese collector community - not only it sponsors numerous exhibits and catalogues, it cooperates with major collections and museums when it comes to exhibition/preservation. They have similar problems, but in general they a little bit more sucsessful.

I understand there is going to be a lot of resistance, but if we are to try to do as individuals we are going to meet a very cold reception in most places.

Hope this writing makes some sence.

Sincerely yours,

K.Rivkin