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13th December 2004, 09:54 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
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Please check it...
Please, can some one with good library check the origin of this side arm.
Seller says it is spanish and he may have right, but I have one shamshir with exacth same hilt and it was always a mystery to me. Spanish side arm in Ebay |
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13th December 2004, 11:52 PM
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#2 |
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EAAF Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,220
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Without looking at any other research, it looks like a composite to me and of recent manufacture.
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14th December 2004, 01:26 AM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Madrid / Barcelona
Posts: 256
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Well, it looks like a variation of the Spanish M1843 sidearm ("machete") for Infantry Pioneers (free translation of the Spanish word "gastador", a class of soldier whose function was to flatten and level the terrain for the passage of trains, carriages and cannons).
The pictures are, frankly, quite bad, but the blade fits well with the one belonging to the model (is also the same blade that featured the M1843 for gunners and soldiers of the engineer corps). The hilt in the original model is similar, but with a lion head in the pommel, an straighter grip and a diamond-shape ecusson. As I said, it seems to be a variation, wouldn't be unheard of, and my bibliography on Spanish Military models needs an actualisation... Yannis, similar hilts, though normally more elaborated, with tiger-head pommels and tiger motifs in samshirs and talwars tend to be associated to Tipoo Sultan, known as "The tiger of Mysore", who fought the English domination. Jim Macdougall, for example, knows FAR more about this than me, let's see if he chimes in. Anyway, I STRONGLY doubt the hilt in this particular e-bay piece has anything to do with India or Tipoo Sultan by any stretch of imagination, but maybe your samshir could... 
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14th December 2004, 05:36 AM
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#4 |
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Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,945
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Hi Marc,
Thank you for the kind words!! and as always, I defer to your outstanding knowledge on Spanish weapons....which of course are well placed here and your identification I would not question Yannis, you continue to find incredibly unusual pieces, nice work again. Very best regards, Jim |
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14th December 2004, 09:40 AM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
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Thank you all
Battara It looks new to me too Marc My shamshir defently is NOT from Tipo's armoury! Is it possible to post an image of the lion head hilt you describe? Jim My dear friend, looking for unusual is easy. Find the damn right answers about it, later, is the hard part Without the help of this forum, all theese years, I wouldnt have a clue about my half collection 
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14th December 2004, 10:27 PM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Madrid / Barcelona
Posts: 256
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Well, I must say that military regulation bladed weapons are really not my area of expertise, and I'm FAR from being above any questioning, in this or in many other fields...
Yannis, I'm sorry, I don't have a scanner at hand. A quick google search has turned up this not-so-great picture, that may or may not be useful...  I'm sorry for not being of more help...  Marc |
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15th December 2004, 01:32 AM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
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Thank you Marc!
It is exact the hilt of my shamshir! Some one took a shamshir blade and put this hilt on! I suppose to make it more attractive Do you know the age of it? |
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15th December 2004, 10:13 AM
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#8 | |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Madrid / Barcelona
Posts: 256
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Quote:
About age... well, M1843 stands by "Model 1843", 1843 being the year when this weapon was officially put into service. Can't tell you for how long this specific model was in use, I'm away of my bibliography right now, but no more than some decades, that's for sure, so it can be said that your exemplar's hilt may date from the second half of the 19th century... provided it's genuine, of course: it is not impossible that there has been replicas made by companies selling decorative swords. I vagely recall seeing something similar being offered for sale in some of the tourist shops that plague the country... Mind it, there has also been similar weapons issued by European armies, and the picture is not so great as to really provide good, reliable information. And, then, there are the variations of the model. But, in any case, all of them are roughly from about the same period, so the mid-late 19th century attribution for the hilt is hardly going to be off-mark... provided, again, that it is genuine. Can't offer, as I would like, much better information, I'm afraid... Marc |
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15th December 2004, 10:25 AM
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#9 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
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It was great help Marc. Thank you!
Few days ago I had no clue about the origin. And I have this piece more than 7 years 
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16th December 2004, 12:42 AM
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#10 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,083
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Yannis
Would it be possible to get a pic of your lion pommeled shamshir? |
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16th December 2004, 11:14 AM
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#11 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
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RSWORD
Here it is: |
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16th December 2004, 11:17 AM
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#12 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
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Scabbard
I found scabbard with the sword, but it does not belong to it. It is recent made, crude and about 20 cm longer!
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