keris borneo

Naga Sasra · 31st December 2009, 02:49 PM

David,
To the best of my recollected knowledge, you are absolutely right, we never did come to any conclution on the ethnographic validity if the painted dresses with teeth and hair, and I would also welcome any photographic evidence of these pieces actually being used by the indigenous people from the area.

Perhaps our friends from the Netherlands can assist?

Also as we were touching on the Banjarmasin pieces, please let me direct your attention to yet another old thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=naga+sasra

I thought this thread would be of interest to all.

David · 31st December 2009, 04:36 PM

Eric, thanks for being the archivist with these past links and this last one is also very good and appropriate to our discussion. It does, however, bring up a big pet peeve of mine. Please, PLEASE, when you have photos of examples, PLEASE....upload them to THIS site. All the links in this thread no longer exist so we are not able to see the blades of these Banjarmasin keris, only the hilts that got posted on the actual forum. I guess kampungnet is no more. Photos also get removed after time from servers like photobucket or whatever you use. Our archives can be a vital resource for future resource, but we have to ensure that the images connected to these discussions remain accessible. Hopeful, like diamonds, the Warung is forever.

Sajen · 31st December 2009, 06:26 PM

I remember this thread where some keris shown which you can attribute Banjarmasin:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=borneo+keris

And also this one:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7840

A. G. Maisey · 1st January 2010, 05:10 AM

I've been out of touch over the Christmas New Year break, and I don't really feel inclined to read back through all the linked threads to see if what I will now say has already been said --- its quicker and easier for me to write.Please forgive me if this is repetition.

The traditional wisdom in respect of Borneo keris --- or Kalimantan, the island is Borneo, the Indonesian province Kalimantan is situated on Borneo --- is that the keris was not indigenous to Borneo. Any keris found on Borneo were brought there by settlers from other parts of Indonesia and Malaysia. When the original dress needed to be replaced the local Borneo craftsman would attempt to copy the original dress, but since these men were not skilled in the art of the particular variations of wrongko, their efforts were most often a slightly warped interpretation of the original.

Metal hilts and also metal scabbards were popular and were often set with rose cut diamonds (intan), rose cut rock crystal (yakut) or other semi-precious gemstones.

It is normal to find matings of blades from one origin with dress that is of a style originating in a different location.

31st December 2009, 02:49 PM	#1
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Borneo David, To the best of my recollected knowledge, you are absolutely right, we never did come to any conclution on the ethnographic validity if the painted dresses with teeth and hair, and I would also welcome any photographic evidence of these pieces actually being used by the indigenous people from the area. Perhaps our friends from the Netherlands can assist? Also as we were touching on the Banjarmasin pieces, please let me direct your attention to yet another old thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=naga+sasra I thought this thread would be of interest to all.

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31st December 2009, 04:36 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Eric, thanks for being the archivist with these past links and this last one is also very good and appropriate to our discussion. It does, however, bring up a big pet peeve of mine. Please, PLEASE, when you have photos of examples, PLEASE....upload them to THIS site. All the links in this thread no longer exist so we are not able to see the blades of these Banjarmasin keris, only the hilts that got posted on the actual forum. I guess kampungnet is no more. Photos also get removed after time from servers like photobucket or whatever you use. Our archives can be a vital resource for future resource, but we have to ensure that the images connected to these discussions remain accessible. Hopeful, like diamonds, the Warung is forever.

31st December 2009, 06:26 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	I remember this thread where some keris shown which you can attribute Banjarmasin: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=borneo+keris And also this one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7840

1st January 2010, 05:10 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I've been out of touch over the Christmas New Year break, and I don't really feel inclined to read back through all the linked threads to see if what I will now say has already been said --- its quicker and easier for me to write.Please forgive me if this is repetition. The traditional wisdom in respect of Borneo keris --- or Kalimantan, the island is Borneo, the Indonesian province Kalimantan is situated on Borneo --- is that the keris was not indigenous to Borneo. Any keris found on Borneo were brought there by settlers from other parts of Indonesia and Malaysia. When the original dress needed to be replaced the local Borneo craftsman would attempt to copy the original dress, but since these men were not skilled in the art of the particular variations of wrongko, their efforts were most often a slightly warped interpretation of the original. Metal hilts and also metal scabbards were popular and were often set with rose cut diamonds (intan), rose cut rock crystal (yakut) or other semi-precious gemstones. It is normal to find matings of blades from one origin with dress that is of a style originating in a different location.