Ottoman Turkish (?) Dagger

Ian · 16th May 2005, 06:08 AM

Well made Indian knife from end of the 19th C. or early 20th C. Made for European trade, as mentioned. The mosaic mother of pearl on the hilt is characteristic, as well as the brass guard and ferrule. I have its cousin that I will be posting shortly in the Swap Section.

Often these have the words "Victory" etched on one side of the blade and "Pure Steel" on the other.

Ian.

Justin · 16th May 2005, 02:34 PM

From what I have seen I believe that these are called kirpan and made by the Sikh in India.I have never seen one that I thought was older than the late 1800s but supposedly these are more modern versions of a traditional form.{feel welcomed to correct me if I am wrong}

Aurangzeb · 16th May 2005, 10:10 PM

Hi all!

Now that we have established that it is Indian,whould this have had a sheath,if so what whould it have looked like?Never herd of this type of weapon,odd it only has "victory" written on both sides.

Thanks again for correcting my mistake!

P.S.-Recently won a Lebanese/Syrian dagger and hope to post it soon!

Ian · 16th May 2005, 11:05 PM

Mark:

Take a look at my post in the Swap Forum today. There is an almost identical knife with its sheath.

Ian.

Aurangzeb · 17th May 2005, 12:31 AM

Hi Ian!

Oh My! It is like they chould be twin daggers!Nice price you are selling it for,I bought mine very cheap!I might even sell it for that musch.

Thanks everyone again for all the help!!!

P.S.-I am about to contact a freind who is a great wood worker and have him make part of the sheath and do the brass fittings myself.

Conogre · 18th May 2005, 05:49 AM

I freely have to admit to having egg on my face over this one (and Justin's too, for that matter

) as I have one nearly identical to Ian's swap item, complete with scabbard only with a simple bone hilt and was told years ago that these were called "kirpans", used by the Sikhs of India.
On the other hand, I've had several with nearly identical hilts that had fullered, damascus blades and, occasionally, reinforced, armor piercing tips and were told that THESE were the ones made for export or take-homes by colonialists, leaving me as confused as embaressed.
In truth, these two are the first that I've seen with the combination of the chain guard and the inlaid MOP hilts.
My next question, I guess, is to ask is anyone else has heard of a "Kirpan" and if there is any validity to the claim that it is a style of knife associated with the Sikhs?
My second question is, pertaining to the blades on these three, doesn't it seem strange that the words "Victory" and "Pure Steel" would be found on knives of the late 1800's/early 1900's?
Perhaps it's just me and exposure to too many Philippine knives circa 1945, but this time period just seems much more appropriate and logical than the earlier designation.
Mike

Rick · 18th May 2005, 03:52 PM

Hi Mike , I believe kirpan is a generic name for a sword . Nowadays they are small but back in the day the Sikhs had to fight to keep their territories and defend themselves from both Hindus , Muslims and other agressors .

http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/sikhism3.asp

16th May 2005, 06:08 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,522	Definitely Indian Well made Indian knife from end of the 19th C. or early 20th C. Made for European trade, as mentioned. The mosaic mother of pearl on the hilt is characteristic, as well as the brass guard and ferrule. I have its cousin that I will be posting shortly in the Swap Section. Often these have the words "Victory" etched on one side of the blade and "Pure Steel" on the other. Ian.

16th May 2005, 11:05 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,522	Sheath Mark: Take a look at my post in the Swap Forum today. There is an almost identical knife with its sheath. Ian.

18th May 2005, 05:49 AM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I freely have to admit to having egg on my face over this one (and Justin's too, for that matter ) as I have one nearly identical to Ian's swap item, complete with scabbard only with a simple bone hilt and was told years ago that these were called "kirpans", used by the Sikhs of India. On the other hand, I've had several with nearly identical hilts that had fullered, damascus blades and, occasionally, reinforced, armor piercing tips and were told that THESE were the ones made for export or take-homes by colonialists, leaving me as confused as embaressed. In truth, these two are the first that I've seen with the combination of the chain guard and the inlaid MOP hilts. My next question, I guess, is to ask is anyone else has heard of a "Kirpan" and if there is any validity to the claim that it is a style of knife associated with the Sikhs? My second question is, pertaining to the blades on these three, doesn't it seem strange that the words "Victory" and "Pure Steel" would be found on knives of the late 1800's/early 1900's? Perhaps it's just me and exposure to too many Philippine knives circa 1945, but this time period just seems much more appropriate and logical than the earlier designation. Mike Attached Images

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16th May 2005, 02:34 PM	#2
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 182	From what I have seen I believe that these are called kirpan and made by the Sikh in India.I have never seen one that I thought was older than the late 1800s but supposedly these are more modern versions of a traditional form.{feel welcomed to correct me if I am wrong}

16th May 2005, 10:10 PM	#3
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hi all! Now that we have established that it is Indian,whould this have had a sheath,if so what whould it have looked like?Never herd of this type of weapon,odd it only has "victory" written on both sides. Thanks again for correcting my mistake! P.S.-Recently won a Lebanese/Syrian dagger and hope to post it soon!

17th May 2005, 12:31 AM	#5
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hi Ian! Oh My! It is like they chould be twin daggers!Nice price you are selling it for,I bought mine very cheap!I might even sell it for that musch. Thanks everyone again for all the help!!! P.S.-I am about to contact a freind who is a great wood worker and have him make part of the sheath and do the brass fittings myself.

18th May 2005, 03:52 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Hi Mike , I believe kirpan is a generic name for a sword . Nowadays they are small but back in the day the Sikhs had to fight to keep their territories and defend themselves from both Hindus , Muslims and other agressors . http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/sikhism3.asp