Arabian swords

TVV · 29th August 2009, 11:56 PM

I remember this hilt form from the Riyadh bazaar thread. It is most interesting to see another example in a museum. Thank you,
Teodor

Jim McDougall · 30th August 2009, 05:16 AM

Thanks very much Michael for sharing these!! It is really interesting to these these well known forms in stripped down status, and I am presuming these are the Hadhramauti style sabres/ sa'if that are typically embellished with embossed silver hilts and chains. At the top seems of course the kattara.
Curious on the piso podang in there, but likely collected in trade?

It would be fantastic to visit these shops! so Michael you have really kind of given me an often wished for peek into them!!!

Best regards,
Jim

ariel · 30th August 2009, 01:41 PM

I look at the pics of the old bazaar and ... have wet dreams.
How much do these swords go for?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th March 2011, 09:06 AM

Hello Im new to the Forum and first have to say how much I have enjoyed reading many of the detective stories over the last few months and what an excellent job the forum and its members have done.
Im based in Northern Oman and I have seen a few swords with hilts like that one in the museum case on the left of picture above. It looks like an extended and reworked form of old Omani Battle Sword Hilt.. I wonder if there is any history on that weapon and if it has been researched because it is so similar.

A.alnakkas · 25th March 2011, 03:39 PM

Salam ibrahim welcome to the forum. The 2nd sword in the 2nd picture (from right to left) is identical to one of my swords that i posted awhile ago.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th March 2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Salam ibrahim welcome to the forum. The 2nd sword in the 2nd picture (from right to left) is identical to one of my swords that i posted awhile ago.

Salaams, That looks like an Ethiopian blade with a yemeni Hilt .. Theres a lot of Hilts in Oman like that and they appear to suggest Falcon heads. I have two or three but on different blades; likely european imports (German) Heavy single edge with fullers . Useful on a ship... Dhow . The equivalent of a cutlass I suppose? I have a picture..

Jim McDougall · 25th March 2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Hello Im new to the Forum and first have to say how much I have enjoyed reading many of the detective stories over the last few months and what an excellent job the forum and its members have done.
Im based in Northern Oman and I have seen a few swords with hilts like that one in the museum case on the left of picture above. It looks like an extended and reworked form of old Omani Battle Sword Hilt.. I wonder if there is any history on that weapon and if it has been researched because it is so similar.

Welcome to the forum Ibrahiim !!!
Im really glad you have joined us, and agree, the detective work around here is fascinating and there is a tremendous core of knowledge in our membership. It really is a kind of historic weapons CSI

Naturally these swords have indeed been discussed many times through the years, and excellent observations on them and many Arabian swords are found in Robert Elgoods "Arms and Armour of Arabia".

All the best,
Jim

Dom · 26th March 2011, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Hello Im new to the Forum

IBRAHIM

à +

Dom

Michael Blalock · 26th March 2011, 11:44 PM

Welcome Ibrahim, These are fascinating swords to me, as is the whole tradition of straight swords with flexible blades in South Arabia. I have not been able to find any contact information at the museum in Yemen to ask about this sword. I've searched in English and Arabic.
I haven't had much luck contacting museums in Oman either. Perhaps you can help me on some questions, I have gotten very few hits in Arabic on what we call the Kattara, الكتارة in fact I have only seen one page in Arabic that uses this term. Is الكتارةthe name that Omani's use for these swords?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th March 2011, 09:23 AM

Salaams everyone !
Ya the Omanis all use the term Kattarra for the long double edged flexible bladed weapon. I often see sword demonstration dances where the exponents do flying vertical takeoffs 3 feet in the air with buckler in one hand and sword ( the kattara ) in the other and showing off by throwing the sword in the air 10 feet and catching it accurately..Plus an incredible flexed wrist action which makes the blade buzz and hum!!
I argue that the buckler is vital to balance when fighting with this weapon as without it you wobble badly. Used properly the small shield can also easily whip the opponents sword out of his hand. The Bucklers name is "Terrs" in Oman, made of thick buffalo or rarely Rhino and commonly some sea creature which I think is whale hide.
On the subject of Museums in Oman I will get their details but I find the best info comes out of the Tariq Rajeb Museum in Kuwait. (Slightly Biased since they have one of my Omani Battle Swords given 15 Years ago !) and it is that weapon that really intrigues me ... and the link to the weapon in that museum case ?... The left hand one. Is it related to the Old Omani Battlesword? If I can post some photos I think you will see my point as the hilts are very similar..It may be just coincidence..but the Museum picture looks like an Omani hilt thats been stretched... very curious... I saw one in Muscat the other day and the vendor said it was from Saudia. The point is that little is known about the Omani Battle Sword (17th Century) except that research now points at a much earlier date... perhaps 10th Century... so its important if there is a link...( and actually its only the hilt Im concerned about just now as the blades are different ) The superb work by Elgood ... and another by Anthony North doesnt pick up on this ... I have attached pics of 2 of my Omani Battle Swords (Total Lenghth 30 inches).Please note that they are unrestored therefor lack the silver furniture leather handle wrist strap and scabbard which fell off probably 3 or 4 hundred years ago...!! I have read the detailed descriptions at Viking Swords on this weapon but I suspect there is a lot more to discover. Its a hacking sword with a broad wing shaped blade and a spiked hilt with turned down quillons but what sort of shield ?? and where exactly did it come from and who made it?...It could predate the long sword Kattarra by 600 years ...
On these Ive seen wootz blades and non wootz andengraved silver cartouch at the throat and sometimes a name on the Pommel in silver. Ive also seen the brass dot on some blades; 3 dots and a one dot. Please compare the hilt with the Saudi hilt in the museum picture ... ?

The Saudi sword I saw in Muscat had a fake running wolf stamp.
Just to confuse !! The Zubair Museum in Muscat has an Omani Battle Sword with a Running Wolf stamp too...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th March 2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

Welcome Ibrahim, These are fascinating swords to me, as is the whole tradition of straight swords with flexible blades in South Arabia. I have not been able to find any contact information at the museum in Yemen to ask about this sword. I've searched in English and Arabic.
I haven't had much luck contacting museums in Oman either. Perhaps you can help me on some questions, I have gotten very few hits in Arabic on what we call the Kattara, الكتارة in fact I have only seen one page in Arabic that uses this term. Is الكتارةthe name that Omani's use for these swords?

Kattara yes... I put too many R s in my last reply..

I am hugely interested in this weapon since no one seems to really know where it originates ... Im no exception despite owning 30 of them!! but I reckon they eveolved via Zanzibar after 1652 since that was when Oman seized that country so I imagine it came into Omani culture around about then. . via a broad cross section of swords Taureg, Mendingah, German,Sudani, Ethiopian and so on ... What puzzles me is if Im right what sword did it replace? The Omani short battle sword? or perhaps they had two swords both being used for a few hundred years by different little guard groups and outposts until the long sword generally took over... In fact there were several sword types including single edge both long and short..but Im generalising so as to focus on the short battle sword and the long Kattara ... It is fascinating because you then begin to think well what about the shields... ??? The Kattara is accompanied by the small Buckler(Terrs) but what did the short sword use?

25th March 2011, 09:06 AM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Interesting Hilt. Hello Im new to the Forum and first have to say how much I have enjoyed reading many of the detective stories over the last few months and what an excellent job the forum and its members have done. Im based in Northern Oman and I have seen a few swords with hilts like that one in the museum case on the left of picture above. It looks like an extended and reworked form of old Omani Battle Sword Hilt.. I wonder if there is any history on that weapon and if it has been researched because it is so similar.

27th March 2011, 09:23 AM	#10
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams everyone ! Ya the Omanis all use the term Kattarra for the long double edged flexible bladed weapon. I often see sword demonstration dances where the exponents do flying vertical takeoffs 3 feet in the air with buckler in one hand and sword ( the kattara ) in the other and showing off by throwing the sword in the air 10 feet and catching it accurately..Plus an incredible flexed wrist action which makes the blade buzz and hum!! I argue that the buckler is vital to balance when fighting with this weapon as without it you wobble badly. Used properly the small shield can also easily whip the opponents sword out of his hand. The Bucklers name is "Terrs" in Oman, made of thick buffalo or rarely Rhino and commonly some sea creature which I think is whale hide. On the subject of Museums in Oman I will get their details but I find the best info comes out of the Tariq Rajeb Museum in Kuwait. (Slightly Biased since they have one of my Omani Battle Swords given 15 Years ago !) and it is that weapon that really intrigues me ... and the link to the weapon in that museum case ?... The left hand one. Is it related to the Old Omani Battlesword? If I can post some photos I think you will see my point as the hilts are very similar..It may be just coincidence..but the Museum picture looks like an Omani hilt thats been stretched... very curious... I saw one in Muscat the other day and the vendor said it was from Saudia. The point is that little is known about the Omani Battle Sword (17th Century) except that research now points at a much earlier date... perhaps 10th Century... so its important if there is a link...( and actually its only the hilt Im concerned about just now as the blades are different ) The superb work by Elgood ... and another by Anthony North doesnt pick up on this ... I have attached pics of 2 of my Omani Battle Swords (Total Lenghth 30 inches).Please note that they are unrestored therefor lack the silver furniture leather handle wrist strap and scabbard which fell off probably 3 or 4 hundred years ago...!! I have read the detailed descriptions at Viking Swords on this weapon but I suspect there is a lot more to discover. Its a hacking sword with a broad wing shaped blade and a spiked hilt with turned down quillons but what sort of shield ?? and where exactly did it come from and who made it?...It could predate the long sword Kattarra by 600 years ... On these Ive seen wootz blades and non wootz andengraved silver cartouch at the throat and sometimes a name on the Pommel in silver. Ive also seen the brass dot on some blades; 3 dots and a one dot. Please compare the hilt with the Saudi hilt in the museum picture ... ? The Saudi sword I saw in Muscat had a fake running wolf stamp. Just to confuse !! The Zubair Museum in Muscat has an Omani Battle Sword with a Running Wolf stamp too... Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

29th August 2009, 11:56 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	I remember this hilt form from the Riyadh bazaar thread. It is most interesting to see another example in a museum. Thank you, Teodor

30th August 2009, 05:16 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Thanks very much Michael for sharing these!! It is really interesting to these these well known forms in stripped down status, and I am presuming these are the Hadhramauti style sabres/ sa'if that are typically embellished with embossed silver hilts and chains. At the top seems of course the kattara. Curious on the piso podang in there, but likely collected in trade? It would be fantastic to visit these shops! so Michael you have really kind of given me an often wished for peek into them!!! Best regards, Jim

30th August 2009, 01:41 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I look at the pics of the old bazaar and ... have wet dreams. How much do these swords go for?

25th March 2011, 03:39 PM	#5
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Salam ibrahim welcome to the forum. The 2nd sword in the 2nd picture (from right to left) is identical to one of my swords that i posted awhile ago.

26th March 2011, 11:44 PM	#9
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Welcome Ibrahim, These are fascinating swords to me, as is the whole tradition of straight swords with flexible blades in South Arabia. I have not been able to find any contact information at the museum in Yemen to ask about this sword. I've searched in English and Arabic. I haven't had much luck contacting museums in Oman either. Perhaps you can help me on some questions, I have gotten very few hits in Arabic on what we call the Kattara, الكتارة in fact I have only seen one page in Arabic that uses this term. Is الكتارةthe name that Omani's use for these swords?