Armour in the Wild West

A Senefelder · 4th August 2009, 05:11 PM

" I would like to point out that it is unlikely that it was Moro armor which brought about the introduction of higher caliber hand guns in the U.S. military as very, very few Moros ever wore such armor. Only a handful of powerful datus would have owned such armor. It was the intense fierceness of the Moros themselves in battle that kept them coming in spite of having a few rounds of .38s in them. "

I was tooling around looking for stuff on this and stumbled upon this http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00999.html . I have read other sources regarding the poor penetrating power of the .38, but the Moro expiriences are something of a hallmark. The fella in the link above posits that the poor performance of the .38 during the campaign relates to the age of the loads, .38's had been in storage for a while, well the .45's for the revolvers brought in to replace the .38's were newly made shells, as the explanation for the poor performance of the .38. I cannot speak to the veracity of his claims but it certainly is an interesting theory and not something that would have occured to me.

VANDOO · 7th August 2009, 04:24 PM

BACK TO THE WILD WEST

THERE IS A STORY BUT NO FACTS TO BACK IT UP AND THERE ARE MULTIPLE CONFLICTING STORIES ABOUT THE GUNFIGHT ITS SELF BUT I THOUGHT IT INTERESTING ENOUGH TO MENTION HERE ANYWAY.
AT THE GUNFIGHT AT IRON SPRINGS IN 1882 BETWEEN WYATT EARP AND THE COWBOY GANG LED BY CURLY BILL BROCIUS WHERE GUNFIRE WAS EXCHANGED AT VERY CLOSE RANGE. IT IS SAID EARP'S CLOTHES WERE FULL OF BULLET HOLES BUT HE WAS NOT WOUNDED AND AS CURLY BILL WAS NOTED AS ONE OF THE VERY BEST SHOTS SOME SAID EARP WAS WEARING BODY ARMOR SO HE SURVIVED. AS FAR AS I KNOW THERE IS NO WRITTEN STATEMENT BY EARP CONCERNING THIS MATTER AND THERE ARE EVEN SEVERAL STORIES THAT SAY EARP NEVER KILLED CURLY BILL AND THAT HE DIED MANY YEARS LATER. BUT AN INTERESTING STORY ANYWAY TRUE OR NOT.

Jeff D · 7th August 2009, 05:59 PM

How can it be that this hasn't come up yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiQntJC-Efw

Jeff

Jim McDougall · 8th August 2009, 11:18 PM

Well done Barry! That exact instance was one of the situations that began me on this thread, and I have still been researching to discover more on the possibility of Wyatt Earp ever using such protection. It has been mentioned that it was amazing that in the hail of bullets at the OK corral, Earp remained unscathed.
It is also known that Wyatt was well aware of functional apparal, and the coat he wore that day also had lined pockets to hold his gun, he did not wear a holster. Perhaps this would suggest other features in line with well thought out clothing that would serve well in his obviously threatened work.
It is also interesting that thoughts on bulletproof clothing such as vests were a topic at hand in Tombstone with the doctor previously mentioned. It remains unclear whether discussions on this predated the OK corral incident, but it seems quite possible, and if so, it was a small town, and Earp would certainly seem to have been cognizant of such matters.

Jeff, amazing, I had completely forgotten that scene in one of the legendary greats of spaghetti westerns!! How did you remember that?!! I havent seen the movie in years. Absolutely perfect example, and looks like the screenwriters were definitely on the same page with this idea.

All best regards,
Jim

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4th August 2009, 05:11 PM	#1
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	" I would like to point out that it is unlikely that it was Moro armor which brought about the introduction of higher caliber hand guns in the U.S. military as very, very few Moros ever wore such armor. Only a handful of powerful datus would have owned such armor. It was the intense fierceness of the Moros themselves in battle that kept them coming in spite of having a few rounds of .38s in them. " I was tooling around looking for stuff on this and stumbled upon this http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00999.html . I have read other sources regarding the poor penetrating power of the .38, but the Moro expiriences are something of a hallmark. The fella in the link above posits that the poor performance of the .38 during the campaign relates to the age of the loads, .38's had been in storage for a while, well the .45's for the revolvers brought in to replace the .38's were newly made shells, as the explanation for the poor performance of the .38. I cannot speak to the veracity of his claims but it certainly is an interesting theory and not something that would have occured to me.

7th August 2009, 04:24 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	BACK TO THE WILD WEST THERE IS A STORY BUT NO FACTS TO BACK IT UP AND THERE ARE MULTIPLE CONFLICTING STORIES ABOUT THE GUNFIGHT ITS SELF BUT I THOUGHT IT INTERESTING ENOUGH TO MENTION HERE ANYWAY. AT THE GUNFIGHT AT IRON SPRINGS IN 1882 BETWEEN WYATT EARP AND THE COWBOY GANG LED BY CURLY BILL BROCIUS WHERE GUNFIRE WAS EXCHANGED AT VERY CLOSE RANGE. IT IS SAID EARP'S CLOTHES WERE FULL OF BULLET HOLES BUT HE WAS NOT WOUNDED AND AS CURLY BILL WAS NOTED AS ONE OF THE VERY BEST SHOTS SOME SAID EARP WAS WEARING BODY ARMOR SO HE SURVIVED. AS FAR AS I KNOW THERE IS NO WRITTEN STATEMENT BY EARP CONCERNING THIS MATTER AND THERE ARE EVEN SEVERAL STORIES THAT SAY EARP NEVER KILLED CURLY BILL AND THAT HE DIED MANY YEARS LATER. BUT AN INTERESTING STORY ANYWAY TRUE OR NOT.

7th August 2009, 05:59 PM	#3
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	How can it be that this hasn't come up yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiQntJC-Efw Jeff

8th August 2009, 11:18 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Well done Barry! That exact instance was one of the situations that began me on this thread, and I have still been researching to discover more on the possibility of Wyatt Earp ever using such protection. It has been mentioned that it was amazing that in the hail of bullets at the OK corral, Earp remained unscathed. It is also known that Wyatt was well aware of functional apparal, and the coat he wore that day also had lined pockets to hold his gun, he did not wear a holster. Perhaps this would suggest other features in line with well thought out clothing that would serve well in his obviously threatened work. It is also interesting that thoughts on bulletproof clothing such as vests were a topic at hand in Tombstone with the doctor previously mentioned. It remains unclear whether discussions on this predated the OK corral incident, but it seems quite possible, and if so, it was a small town, and Earp would certainly seem to have been cognizant of such matters. Jeff, amazing, I had completely forgotten that scene in one of the legendary greats of spaghetti westerns!! How did you remember that?!! I havent seen the movie in years. Absolutely perfect example, and looks like the screenwriters were definitely on the same page with this idea. All best regards, Jim