Mandau for comment

[Sajen]

After I have had some time ago no good luck by a buy in e-bay (the seller have been very nice and I don't have to take it) I buy now a Mandau by Herman Historica and I think that it is a good and old one. Now I want to read your comments and special I want to know from which tribe it is.
It is 74 cm long, the blade alone is 58 cm and 1 cm thick at the base.
Many thank's in advance,
sajen

[Sajen]

Some more pics! Thank you Arjan for your helpful advise.

[ariel]

What always surprises me is a somewhat condescending attitude to non-industrial societies. Thus, the Asian nomads could not make swords and acquired them from the "settled" societies, tribal people made primitive weapons ( perhaps, with the exception of wood/horn carving, but, heck, they had all the time in the world!), etc, etc.
But then we look at this Mandau, made by head-hunting tribesmen, without any organized industrial base, and look at the quality of the blade and the intricacy of metalwork! They were professional metalwork artists!
Either we overestimate the complexity needed for such endeavors or grossly underestimate the technological abilities of small tribal masters ( perhaps, both).
My hat is off to the bladesmith who made this weapon! Nothing Passau or Toledo would be ashamed of.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by ariel

What always surprises me is a somewhat condescending attitude to non-industrial societies. Thus, the Asian nomads could not make swords and acquired them from the "settled" societies, tribal people made primitive weapons ( perhaps, with the exception of wood/horn carving, but, heck, they had all the time in the world!), etc, etc.
But then we look at this Mandau, made by head-hunting tribesmen, without any organized industrial base, and look at the quality of the blade and the intricacy of metalwork! They were professional metalwork artists!
Either we overestimate the complexity needed for such endeavors or grossly underestimate the technological abilities of small tribal masters ( perhaps, both).
My hat is off to the bladesmith who made this weapon! Nothing Passau or Toledo would be ashamed of.

Thank you Ariel for comment. Yes, I agree complete with you, when I see the Mandau in real (the pic from the seller have been very small) I am very positiv surprised and don't understand that it is not sold by the live auction, the price have been very cheap.
sajen

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Sajen

..... very positiv surprised and don't understand that it is not sold by the live auction, the price have been very cheap.
sajen

I tested my theory ( a generalisation, I know) at this auction and wasn't disappointed. People attending these auctions don't like items with imperfections/defects/deficiencies or 'cheap'-looking items when there are 'better'-looking, "WOW!" items available at the same auction. Sometimes too many items of the same type don't sell well either.
Hats off , however, to the collector who got the 'kingfisher' keris. More than I would be prepared to pay.

I whole-heartedly agree with ariel's comment, especially the first sentence. 'nuff said!

As for Dayak smithing, well, they've been working with metals longer than most people in the archipelago. After all, they were the first "Malay" people to settle the island, about 3k years ago and hence became "indigenous". OF COURSE their work is second to none.
You should see how they made long blow-pipes the traditional way. I saw one being made which took about one month!... selecting the single branch, standing it on its end and SLOWWLLYYY pushing a long thin metal rod down the centre, constantly wetting and pushing... etc. etc.

Best,

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hats off , however, to the collector who got the 'kingfisher' keris. More than I would be prepared to pay.

Best,

Hello Amuk,
I think you speak about No. 3240. This one also catch my eyes!

Do you have any suggestion from which tribe this mandau?

sajen

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Amuk,
I think you speak about No. 3240. This one also catch my eyes!

Do you have any suggestion from which tribe this mandau?

sajen

Hullo Sajen,

Yup, #3240. A good Lot.
In another thread, I mentioned that Parang/Mandau/Kalimantan/Borneo wasn't my area of 'expertise'.
But, since you asked, I'd start with Bahau.

Best,

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Sajen,

Yup, #3240. A good Lot.
In another thread, I mentioned that Parang/Mandau/Kalimantan/Borneo wasn't my area of 'expertise'.
But, since you asked, I'd start with Bahau.

Best,

Thank's!

[asomotif]

Kayan / Kenyah IMHO

Bahau I would expect to be more stylistic / more bold in style ?

(very) Nice mandau by the way. reminds me to take a look on Hermann's Historica's auctions again.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Kayan / Kenyah IMHO

Bahau I would expect to be more stylistic / more bold in style ?

(very) Nice mandau by the way. reminds me to take a look on Hermann's Historica's auctions again.

Thank's Willem, have a nice weekend.
sajen

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo Willem,

Originally Posted by asomotif

Kayan / Kenyah IMHO

Bahau I would expect to be more stylistic / more bold in style ?.....

I included those two tribes under Bahau (as per Brittanica). As I don't know of Dr. J.B. Anthony (a local Dayak publicist/leader) disputing this, I accepted it in good faith. Who am I to debate it?

Best,

[asomotif]

I included those two tribes under Bahau (as per Brittanica).

This is new to me. This is the first time that I hear of Kayan / Kenyah being part of Bahau.

If you check Hornbill and Dragon by Bernard Sellato, he has a map with tribes in which kayan / kenyah is a pretty large group, and part of this group are Bahau and Modang tribes.

Best regards,
Willem

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by asomotif

This is new to me. This is the first time that I hear of Kayan / Kenyah being part of Bahau.

If you check Hornbill and Dragon by Bernard Sellato, he has a map with tribes in which kayan / kenyah is a pretty large group, and part of this group are Bahau and Modang tribes.

Best regards,
Willem

Hi Willem,
so you would guess that it is a Kenyah or Kayan Mandau?

Best regards,
Detlef

[asomotif]

Uhhhhh..... Let's say kayan, because it looks like a hilt that Mjoberg describes as Kayan in his book "Borneo"

I am not sure if you could either pinpoint it on kenyah or Kayan as these tribes are very close to each other, and that is also a guess.

But it is a very nice example and a very good start for a mandau collection

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Uhhhhh..... Let's say kayan, because it looks like a hilt that Mjoberg describes as Kayan in his book "Borneo"

I am not sure if you could either pinpoint it on kenyah or Kayan as these tribes are very close to each other, and that is also a guess.

But it is a very nice example and a very good start for a mandau collection

Thank you Willem. This is already the second one I have. The other one complete with sheat and belt, only the piso raut is missing. Wooden handle and also very nice blade.
sajen

[asomotif]

because it looks like a hilt that Mjoberg describes as Kayan in his book "Borneo"

Not more than educated guessing by the way.
here is the picture from the book.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Not more than educated guessing by the way.
here is the picture from the book.

Yes I see what you mean. Thank's for the learning lession!

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

The other one complete with sheat and belt, only the piso raut is missing. Wooden handle and also very nice blade.

Hi Sajen,

Could you post som pics of that one please?



I found a pic of a pre 1898 handle of the mandalam kayans, from the museum nusantara Delft. I see also some similarities on that one too...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Sajen,

Could you post som pics of that one please?



I found a pic of a pre 1898 handle of the mandalam kayans, from the museum nusantara Delft. I see also some similarities on that one too...

Hi Maurice,

thank's for the pic, yes the similarities I see also.
Pics from my other Mandau I will post later and I am already curious about your comment!

[Sajen]

And I still have a Mandau handle, from this one I also will post some pics.
sajen

[Sajen]

Here the pics from my other Mandau.

[Sajen]

Some close-ups.
sajen

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Some close-ups.
sajen

....very very nice

[Sajen]

Here the pics from the handle.
sajen