new from the philippines!

[zelbone]

LabanTayo and I have had the privledge to evaluate one these new swords from themorningstar. We've had it since January, but I've procrastinated writing this evaluation until now...just hours before I take off for the Philippines for a month !!!

Anyways, themorningstar sent me a new talibong from Negros knowing that LabanTayo and I both study a Visayan art from Negros and the talibong is one of the types of swords we use in our sword art. When the talibong (or you could call it a tenegre) arrived the first thing I noticed when I picked it up was that it was a serious sword and definately not tourist junk that you would expect from new swords coming from the Philippines. The sword measures 26.5 inches long overall with a blade of around 20 inches. It's about 1.25 inches at it's widest and about 0.25 inches thick at the ricasso with a nice distal taper. The blade follows the nice slender talibong form usually associated with Negros with a nice long 7.5 inch false edge. The wider "bilog" form is usually associated more with Panay and is exemplified in the "Sanduko" tenegre blades. One interesting note here is that the blade is double beveled instead of the traditional chisel-edge. I discussed this with themorningstar and he said that this configuration would appeal to more westerners and martial artist than the traditional left or right hand single bevel. It also allows the sword to be used by either right or left handed persons.

As requested by themorningstar, Shelley and I etched the blade to see if the blade had a hardened edge. We used FeCl and found that it indeed had been forged and had a hardened edge which was darker than the rest of the sword.

The handle is of the traditional horsehoof design that comes from Negros. The hilt is carved of carabao horn and is highly polished. The ferrule looks like its made of either brass or iron which has been chrome plated. The S-guard is also made of brass or iron and chrome plated as well. We really like the S-guard on this sword. The bottom bow covers the fingers well and leaves enough room for them to still move around. The top part of the guard is small enough to be unobtrusive, but effective enough to protect your hand and catch your opponents blade. All in all, a very effective hilt. One nice touch is that even though the hilt is your typical Visayan blind tang construction, a pin goes crosswise through the hilt and tang further securing the blade into the handle.

The scabbard that came with this sword is wood with leather covering both ends, with a little hanger block of wood near the throat. themorningstar appologized to me about the scabbard before hand saying this was just a prototype and the scabbard was just thrown together in the last minute. I actually didn't find anything wrong with the scabbard...it does what a scabbard is supposed to do and it doesn't look that bad.

So how well does this sword work? It works great and handles extremely well. The first thing I noticed is that it swings and twirls very well. It's a very fast blade that can change directions rather quickly. For me the blade was just the right length at 20 inches. LabanTayo said he'd prefer a blade just a little longer. Actually, the morningstar has another talibong with a longer blade which LabanTayo would probably prefer. We did notice one thing about the hilt. The hilt is bigger than most of the sword hilts we are use to, but then again LabanTayo and I are use to old antique Visayan swords with smaller proportioned hilts. The good news is that most westerners will have no problems with this hilt being too small like many of my vintage Visayan hilts. One of LabanTayos top students said there was nothing wrong with the sword and is perfect in size in all respects...of course he's over 6 feet tall and at least a good solid 225 lbs. I'm much small, but would prefer maybe a slightly smaller hilt. LabanTayo would prefer the same hilt, but with a longer blade. That's just being nitpicky. Overall, this is one great sword for any Filipino Martial Artist.

As for cutting, I don't have any pictures, but it cuts extremely well. This is one great sword for those not wanting to mess up or play with their antique Visayan swords. Enclosed are a few detailed pics with a couple of Visayan swords from Negros and Panay to compare with. Contact themorningstar if your interested in an authentic Visayan talibong or ginunting. Hopefully LabanTayo and themorningstar can add further comment. I'm off for the Philippines!

[Ian]

Very interesting!

Are the full tang examples from Luzon?

Ian.

[themorningstar]

Originally Posted by Ian

Very interesting!

Are the full tang examples from Luzon?

Ian.

full tang? i was unaware i had any made full tang... which ones in particular were you referring to? top to bottom is #'s 1-6, left is 7, right is 8

[tom hyle]

I can't speak for Ian, of course, but I believe he meant full length tangs, not full flat tangs; some of them seem to have full length tangs with brass pommel nuts?

[Ian]

Thanks Tom. Yes, full length tangs. Sometimes my thoughts get ahead of my fingers

morningstar -- Laban_Tayo makes mention above of "pinutes." Is the correct spelling pinute or pinuti, and how does the correct term translate into English?

Ian.

[LabanTayo]

sorry, mis-spelling on my part.
its pinuti.
means white metal, or shiny metal.
also can be a generic term for long thin blades.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by LabanTayo

sorry, mis-spelling on my part.
its pinuti.
means white metal, or shiny metal.
also can be a generic term for long thin blades.

Thanks Shelley. That's three for three on "white" or shiny, which sort of made sense, but I like the alternative "long thin blade" as a descriptor for knives and swords.

[themorningstar]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

I can't speak for Ian, of course, but I believe he meant full length tangs, not full flat tangs; some of them seem to have full length tangs with brass pommel nuts?

yes, four of the blades are from the luzon area, rat tail tang with brass end...

[ThePepperSkull]

I thought I would refesh this thread with some more Phillippine made modern blades.

yakan-made Pira, ca. 1992.

[ThePepperSkull]

^ forgot to mention the materials used: The handle is made of Langka wood, the sheath is some fort of Palm wood, and wrapped in Rattan.




Here's a cebuano Pinuti. This one is your more run of the mill utility bolo. Made by a Panday named Jun Silva.

[ThePepperSkull]

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

I thought I would refesh this thread with some more Phillippine made modern blades.

yakan-made Pira, ca. 1992.
(snip)

Error on my part, this was made in 1995, not '92.

Here are pics of the same Pira, as taken by its previous owner, Cecil Quirino:






This is probably my favourite blade out of my collection. Very hard steel, the edge holds incredibly well, and it just feels like a workhorse.




Another modern made P.I. weapon. Here is a Kampilan made by a maguindanao smith who went by the name of "toks", made in 1992. Also procured from Cecil Quirino's collection:






Due to its tempering the blade vibrates quite a bit, and looking down the spire the blade curves. Despite this it holds its edge as well as any of the stiffer blades I own. Also, despite its relative shakiness in terms of vibrating when cutting with, feels very sturdy and does not feel to me like a tourist blade, which in contrast often feel brittle, wafer thin and unsafe. Of this I cannot be 100% sure and am just speculating, but Cecil is a man who does his research and does not procure touristy blades for his personal collection.

What do you all think of me getting this retempered and straightened? I found a local bladesmith (N. American) who would be willing to do this for me. the drawback is that the hilt will nee to be destroyed in order to do so.

Of course, the hilt is not as ornate as other older kampilan, nor is it as ornate as newer kampilan hilts coming from places like Tugaya... which I may consider ordering a hilt from to replace the old one if ever I decide to get the blade retempered and straightened.