spanish colonial lances

Jim McDougall · 23rd November 2008, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aiontay

Here is the image of the shield: http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/kiowa/08935820.jpg.

The larger collection, which includes a number of depictions of weapons is:
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/naa/kiowa/kiowa.htm

That is outstanding, and yup, its an elephant OK!!!
Would you please send me a PM, yours is not receiving.

All the best,
Jim

aiontay · 23rd November 2008, 10:59 PM

Jim, for some reason I can't PM you either.

Jim McDougall · 25th November 2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aiontay

Jim, for some reason I can't PM you either.

Im not sure what the problem is Aiontay....Ive been to the Oracle

and am waiting to hear more...but you should be able to send me an email off my members profile.
I appreciate your patience,
Jim

TVV · 4th December 2008, 04:12 AM

Here is a picture from the Palace of Governors in Santa Fe. There is a lance in the top right corner. Unfortunately taking pictures is prohibited and thus the quality of the picture is somewhat poor, and there is no close-up.
This is too bad, because the lance is really pretty - it features a silver inlay with floral design. I am not sure if it was locally made or imported from Spain. The socket is flattened to make it into a tang.
There are some other nice items in this display, including an espada ancha (with active rust in the fullers

) and a buffalo hide shield, called "adarga".
Best regards,
Teodor

Jim McDougall · 4th December 2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Here is a picture from the Palace of Governors in Santa Fe. There is a lance in the top right corner. Unfortunately taking pictures is prohibited and thus the quality of the picture is somewhat poor, and there is no close-up.
This is too bad, because the lance is really pretty - it features a silver inlay with floral design. I am not sure if it was locally made or imported from Spain. The socket is flattened to make it into a tang.
There are some other nice items in this display, including an espada ancha (with active rust in the fullers

) and a buffalo hide shield, called "adarga".
Best regards,
Teodor

Excellent photo Teodor! Thank you for posting this, I felt deja vu as I looked at it....I was there in October but didnt get any pictures. Great example of the espada ancha, which I hope we'll be able to discuss here sometime soon.

All the best,
Jim

NMSUrfer · 20th September 2017, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

That is outstanding, and yup, its an elephant OK!!!
Would you please send me a PM, yours is not receiving.

All the best,

Jim

I am very late to this conversation, but I have a theory about the elephant shield. It seems to have images of sharks on it which makes me think of drawings done at Ft Marion. I seem to remember some of the men held there saw a traveling circus. I would imagine it made quite an impression, maybe enough to seek the elephant as a protector spirit on a shield.

midelburgo · 21st September 2017, 12:30 AM

About 6 or 7 years ago somebody in New Mexico hit a hoard of colonial weaponry. For weeks he kept listing espadas anchas at ebay, and from time to time also a lance. I saw the files recently looking for something else, if these fossil thread is of interes I could hang them.

There is also some new literature since this thread was started about jinetes de cuera.

Jim McDougall · 21st September 2017, 04:44 AM

WOW! Thanks guys! It is great to see these old threads revived, and absolutely please post anything you can.
N.M surfer one of my favorite states!! we are in Washington but about to turn the 'bookmobile' that direction by October.

Always looking for espada anchas and all Spanish colonial things as there are intriguing variations that need very much to be included in cataloguing.

midelburgo · 21st September 2017, 12:20 PM

Lets try. From the hoard.

.

Jim McDougall · 21st September 2017, 04:05 PM

Fantastic!!
Thank you for these. Any details or ideas on them? Where they are from etc.
The lance head may be from a goad or buffalo hunt example as it is socketed rather than with langets.

Curious on the LA stamp on what appears a 'gavilan' type espada.

midelburgo · 21st September 2017, 04:47 PM

The pieces with the red background were downloaded from ebay in 2005, from a guy saying something like that he found them together in a barn not far from Albuquerque. I am unable to open the original ebay page.

.

4th December 2008, 04:12 AM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Here is a picture from the Palace of Governors in Santa Fe. There is a lance in the top right corner. Unfortunately taking pictures is prohibited and thus the quality of the picture is somewhat poor, and there is no close-up. This is too bad, because the lance is really pretty - it features a silver inlay with floral design. I am not sure if it was locally made or imported from Spain. The socket is flattened to make it into a tang. There are some other nice items in this display, including an espada ancha (with active rust in the fullers ) and a buffalo hide shield, called "adarga". Best regards, Teodor Attached Images

21st September 2017, 12:20 PM	#9
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 263	Lets try. From the hoard. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 21st September 2017 at 05:11 PM.

21st September 2017, 04:47 PM	#11
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 263	The pieces with the red background were downloaded from ebay in 2005, from a guy saying something like that he found them together in a barn not far from Albuquerque. I am unable to open the original ebay page. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 21st September 2017 at 05:15 PM.

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23rd November 2008, 10:59 PM	#2
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	Jim, for some reason I can't PM you either.

21st September 2017, 12:30 AM	#7
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 263	About 6 or 7 years ago somebody in New Mexico hit a hoard of colonial weaponry. For weeks he kept listing espadas anchas at ebay, and from time to time also a lance. I saw the files recently looking for something else, if these fossil thread is of interes I could hang them. There is also some new literature since this thread was started about jinetes de cuera.

21st September 2017, 04:44 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	WOW! Thanks guys! It is great to see these old threads revived, and absolutely please post anything you can. N.M surfer one of my favorite states!! we are in Washington but about to turn the 'bookmobile' that direction by October. Always looking for espada anchas and all Spanish colonial things as there are intriguing variations that need very much to be included in cataloguing.

21st September 2017, 04:05 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Fantastic!! Thank you for these. Any details or ideas on them? Where they are from etc. The lance head may be from a goad or buffalo hunt example as it is socketed rather than with langets. Curious on the LA stamp on what appears a 'gavilan' type espada.