The chhatri or umbrella

Jim McDougall · 28th September 2008, 09:15 PM

Hi Jens,
A most fascinating topic, that of markings on Indian blades, and this one is most important. It does seem plausible that weapons assigned to the royal bodyguards would carry that symbol as a royal insignia. I wonder since the umbrella was a widely recognized symbol of royalty and auspicious dogma, if various individuals applied different impressions of them. I have seen the ones shown in Figiel, but are there other examples with different attribution?

What might be the earliest known examples on weapons?

All the best,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 28th September 2008, 09:32 PM

Yes Jim, I thought it might interest you. Elgood does not comment directly on these markings on weapons, but he does write, “The earliest umbrella mark from Jahangir’s reign (1605-1628) that has come to my notice is on a sword inscribed ‘Shah Jahangir Padshah Gazi’, dated 1027 AH/1608 AD and in addition bears the markers name ‘Abdul Rahim Mushabadi’.”

Maybe the Hindus did not use it on weapons at all – at least in the early times.

bhushan_lawate · 29th September 2008, 05:41 AM

Hi all,

Quite an interesting topic.

The Hindus have been using the umbrella as a royal symbol and it is also associated with religious customs since time immemorial.

However little or no account exists as to whether it was also used as an auspicious symbol on weapons belonging to Hindus.

I do no believe that it was unauspicous for kings to see their reflection in a bright sword blade; I'm open to change my opinion though because of the following known piece of history.

Shah Jahan had a noble man called Udaram Deshmukh who was known for two things:
1. His fierce valor and gallantry
2. He was very ugly.

Once Shah Jahan wanted to tease him in his court and ordered for a hand held mirror. Saw his reflection in the mirror and passed it on to his courtiers to do the same.
The mirror was passed in the ranks of the courtiers and soon everyone reliazed the emperor's plans of mocking at Udaram.
Everyones interest had peaked as to how Udaram escapes mockery or is at the receiving end of the emperor's trick.
The moment the mirror was presented in front of Udaram, he, without looking at it put the mirror upside down and unsheathed his sword, saw his face and passed the mirror on.
Everyone was dumbstuck as this was a great insult to the emperor. However before anyone could react Udaram uttered "Mirrors are for ladies to see their refelection, for men should see it in their dazzling sword blades"
The emperor was greatly pleased by the brilliant and intelligent gesture of Udaram and gifted him his personal bejewelled Katar (punch Dagger) Which till date can be seen in the personal collection of the descendants of Udaram Deshmukh.

As far as the umberella is concerned we need to dig in deeper details and research before concluding anything.

Regards,
Bhushan

Jens Nordlunde · 29th September 2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhushan_lawate

Hi all,

As far as the umberella is concerned we need to dig in deeper details and research before concluding anything.

Regards,
Bhushan

Hi Bhushan,

You are quite right, that a deeper research about the meaning of the umbrella has to be made. Unfortunately a big part of the knowledge is likely to be hidden in some palm leaf books, not yet translated – or do you, or someone else, have more information’s?

Interesting history about Udaram, but I doubt that anyone would have be allowed to draw his sword in the present of Shah Jahan.

Jim McDougall · 1st October 2008, 01:30 AM

Probably not of much significance, but came across a reference on some ancient coins from Israel. These are bronze 'prutah' minted during the reign of Agrippa I (37-44AD), and carried the umbrella (more of a 'canopy' or parasol) on one side, and it is noted 'symbol of royalty'...the other side three ears of barley. Just thought the royal symbolism interesting, as well as the not often thought of contact in these early times between Israel and India.

rand · 1st October 2008, 02:26 AM

Shah Jahans dagger, he ruled 1628-1657, the dagger dates to 1629-1630 and has the umbrella displayed. Of interest there are two shades of gold inlay for contrast, that is not often seen of Islamic work.

rand

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd October 2008, 04:23 PM

Jim, it is an interesting observation you have made, and one, which belongs to this thread, the very old trade routes taken into consideration.

Rand, thank you for showing the dagger. It is true that different kinds of gold seldom were used in a weapon.

At the exhibition in Copenhagen 1982 a sword with an umbrella was shown. It had been taken from an eunuch after a battle, so it seems as if not all swords marked with umbrellas were used by royals, but from the way it looked, it must have belonged to a royal.

Mytribalworld · 6th October 2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Bhushan,

You are quite right, that a deeper research about the meaning of the umbrella has to be made. Unfortunately a big part of the knowledge is likely to be hidden in some palm leaf books, not yet translated – or do you, or someone else, have more information’s?

Interesting history about Udaram, but I doubt that anyone would have be allowed to draw his sword in the present of Shah Jahan.

Hi Jens,

The Ngadju dayak culture in south Borneo got also influence from the Hindus.
The umbrella (payong) plays an important role in all rituall there
The umbrella is indentical with the tree of life.
Maybe because of his protectional task ( I don't know for sure why)
But the tree of life is also often presented as a spear.
If we seen that in one line it looks like there's a connection between the umbrella-tree of life-weaponery.

Maybe because the weapons brings death while the tree of life is the source of new life ? ( in a headhunting culture the death is the start of a new life)

I realize that these cultures are far away from eachother but maybe it helps to find answers about the use of the umbrella on swordblades.

I'm interested about the use of the "eye motif" on swords from India.
Is this because of the " evel eye believe?"

friendly regards,

Arjan.

Gonzalo G · 6th October 2008, 02:19 PM

The eye motif is common on the sacrificial swords, and it represents the godess Durga, presiding over the sacrifices.
Regards

Gonzalo

Jens Nordlunde · 6th October 2008, 02:31 PM

Hi Rand,

Interesting knife you show, an umbrella looking like this, is also on the kard made of meteoric iron – if I am not mistaken. Weapons with the umbrella mark are, I think, mostly thought of being used only by the royals. I have however seen a sword, which could have belonged at a royal, but to which was attached a metal label, stating, “Taken from a eunuch of the king of Oudh at the capture of the Imambara [March 14th 1858], by Col. Annesley, COMDG. 10th Regt.”

So it seems as if others than the royals could use these weapons, or maybe the eunuch was a lifeguard, and that was the reason why he fought with a sword marked with an umbrella.

Hi Arjan,

Thank you for joining. In the very early days the Hindu’s had colonies on many of the islands in the area; they are even said to have had a colony in China, so there must have been a strong Hindu influence. It is interesting what you write about the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life, as it is the first time I have heard this. I have earlier read about a connection between the tree of life end the kundalini flame, but only in one or two places. The mid rib on katars is sometimes made like a slim tree, mostly said to be cypress, but I have also seen it described like the tree of life.

Where did you find the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life?

Yes I think the ‘eye motif’, was used for protection against ‘the evil eye’.

Jens

Gonzalo G · 6th October 2008, 03:12 PM

Jens, are there many non sacrificial swords with the eye inscription?

I think there are more deep and complex meanings on the imagery used over the war weapons. You can find a very interesting discussion related to the subject of the eye inscription over the blades of the swords in this thread:

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=79432

Also, there are references to bibliographical analysis in relation to this subject.
Regards

Gonzalo

Mytribalworld · 6th October 2008, 03:21 PM

Hi Arjan,

Thank you for joining. In the very early days the Hindu’s had colonies on many of the islands in the area; they are even said to have had a colony in China, so there must have been a strong Hindu influence. It is interesting what you write about the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life, as it is the first time I have heard this. I have earlier read about a connection between the tree of life end the kundalini flame, but only in one or two places. The mid rib on katars is sometimes made like a slim tree, mostly said to be cypress, but I have also seen it described like the tree of life.

Where did you find the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life?

Yes I think the ‘eye motif’, was used for protection against ‘the evil eye’.

Jens[/QUOTE]

Hi Jens,

The connection between umbrella and tree of life is often mentioned in " Ngaju Religion- the conception of god among a South Borneo People" by Dr,H.Scharer -The Hague 1963

he writes:-"The umbrella is indentical with the tree of life.Its not only to be found here but plays important role in every transition ceremony ( when passing from one to another status) A baby is carried under an umbrella for its ritual bath in the river,an umbrella is opened above a bridal pair,a skull is placed under an umbrella on the skull rack and also the umbrella palys a very important role at a funeral and at the mortuary ceremony.-" pag 70.

The use of the umbrella is part of a complex mix of symbols used to represent the upperworld and underworld.

Arjan.

1st October 2008, 02:26 AM	#6
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Shah Jahans dagger, he ruled 1628-1657, the dagger dates to 1629-1630 and has the umbrella displayed. Of interest there are two shades of gold inlay for contrast, that is not often seen of Islamic work. rand Attached Images

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28th September 2008, 09:15 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Hi Jens, A most fascinating topic, that of markings on Indian blades, and this one is most important. It does seem plausible that weapons assigned to the royal bodyguards would carry that symbol as a royal insignia. I wonder since the umbrella was a widely recognized symbol of royalty and auspicious dogma, if various individuals applied different impressions of them. I have seen the ones shown in Figiel, but are there other examples with different attribution? What might be the earliest known examples on weapons? All the best, Jim

28th September 2008, 09:32 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes Jim, I thought it might interest you. Elgood does not comment directly on these markings on weapons, but he does write, “The earliest umbrella mark from Jahangir’s reign (1605-1628) that has come to my notice is on a sword inscribed ‘Shah Jahangir Padshah Gazi’, dated 1027 AH/1608 AD and in addition bears the markers name ‘Abdul Rahim Mushabadi’.” Maybe the Hindus did not use it on weapons at all – at least in the early times.

29th September 2008, 05:41 AM	#3
bhushan_lawate Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 77	Hi all, Quite an interesting topic. The Hindus have been using the umbrella as a royal symbol and it is also associated with religious customs since time immemorial. However little or no account exists as to whether it was also used as an auspicious symbol on weapons belonging to Hindus. I do no believe that it was unauspicous for kings to see their reflection in a bright sword blade; I'm open to change my opinion though because of the following known piece of history. Shah Jahan had a noble man called Udaram Deshmukh who was known for two things: 1. His fierce valor and gallantry 2. He was very ugly. Once Shah Jahan wanted to tease him in his court and ordered for a hand held mirror. Saw his reflection in the mirror and passed it on to his courtiers to do the same. The mirror was passed in the ranks of the courtiers and soon everyone reliazed the emperor's plans of mocking at Udaram. Everyones interest had peaked as to how Udaram escapes mockery or is at the receiving end of the emperor's trick. The moment the mirror was presented in front of Udaram, he, without looking at it put the mirror upside down and unsheathed his sword, saw his face and passed the mirror on. Everyone was dumbstuck as this was a great insult to the emperor. However before anyone could react Udaram uttered "Mirrors are for ladies to see their refelection, for men should see it in their dazzling sword blades" The emperor was greatly pleased by the brilliant and intelligent gesture of Udaram and gifted him his personal bejewelled Katar (punch Dagger) Which till date can be seen in the personal collection of the descendants of Udaram Deshmukh. As far as the umberella is concerned we need to dig in deeper details and research before concluding anything. Regards, Bhushan

1st October 2008, 01:30 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Probably not of much significance, but came across a reference on some ancient coins from Israel. These are bronze 'prutah' minted during the reign of Agrippa I (37-44AD), and carried the umbrella (more of a 'canopy' or parasol) on one side, and it is noted 'symbol of royalty'...the other side three ears of barley. Just thought the royal symbolism interesting, as well as the not often thought of contact in these early times between Israel and India.

2nd October 2008, 04:23 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Jim, it is an interesting observation you have made, and one, which belongs to this thread, the very old trade routes taken into consideration. Rand, thank you for showing the dagger. It is true that different kinds of gold seldom were used in a weapon. At the exhibition in Copenhagen 1982 a sword with an umbrella was shown. It had been taken from an eunuch after a battle, so it seems as if not all swords marked with umbrellas were used by royals, but from the way it looked, it must have belonged to a royal.

6th October 2008, 02:19 PM	#9
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	The eye motif is common on the sacrificial swords, and it represents the godess Durga, presiding over the sacrifices. Regards Gonzalo

6th October 2008, 02:31 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Rand, Interesting knife you show, an umbrella looking like this, is also on the kard made of meteoric iron – if I am not mistaken. Weapons with the umbrella mark are, I think, mostly thought of being used only by the royals. I have however seen a sword, which could have belonged at a royal, but to which was attached a metal label, stating, “Taken from a eunuch of the king of Oudh at the capture of the Imambara [March 14th 1858], by Col. Annesley, COMDG. 10th Regt.” So it seems as if others than the royals could use these weapons, or maybe the eunuch was a lifeguard, and that was the reason why he fought with a sword marked with an umbrella. Hi Arjan, Thank you for joining. In the very early days the Hindu’s had colonies on many of the islands in the area; they are even said to have had a colony in China, so there must have been a strong Hindu influence. It is interesting what you write about the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life, as it is the first time I have heard this. I have earlier read about a connection between the tree of life end the kundalini flame, but only in one or two places. The mid rib on katars is sometimes made like a slim tree, mostly said to be cypress, but I have also seen it described like the tree of life. Where did you find the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life? Yes I think the ‘eye motif’, was used for protection against ‘the evil eye’. Jens

6th October 2008, 03:12 PM	#11
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Jens, are there many non sacrificial swords with the eye inscription? I think there are more deep and complex meanings on the imagery used over the war weapons. You can find a very interesting discussion related to the subject of the eye inscription over the blades of the swords in this thread: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=79432 Also, there are references to bibliographical analysis in relation to this subject. Regards Gonzalo

6th October 2008, 03:21 PM	#12
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	Hi Arjan, Thank you for joining. In the very early days the Hindu’s had colonies on many of the islands in the area; they are even said to have had a colony in China, so there must have been a strong Hindu influence. It is interesting what you write about the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life, as it is the first time I have heard this. I have earlier read about a connection between the tree of life end the kundalini flame, but only in one or two places. The mid rib on katars is sometimes made like a slim tree, mostly said to be cypress, but I have also seen it described like the tree of life. Where did you find the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life? Yes I think the ‘eye motif’, was used for protection against ‘the evil eye’. Jens[/QUOTE] Hi Jens, The connection between umbrella and tree of life is often mentioned in " Ngaju Religion- the conception of god among a South Borneo People" by Dr,H.Scharer -The Hague 1963 he writes:-"The umbrella is indentical with the tree of life.Its not only to be found here but plays important role in every transition ceremony ( when passing from one to another status) A baby is carried under an umbrella for its ritual bath in the river,an umbrella is opened above a bridal pair,a skull is placed under an umbrella on the skull rack and also the umbrella palys a very important role at a funeral and at the mortuary ceremony.-" pag 70. The use of the umbrella is part of a complex mix of symbols used to represent the upperworld and underworld. Arjan.