Indian 'Main Gauche' ???

[Jim McDougall]

Well thought out assessment David! and I am inclined to agree, this was definitely put together to be used. I'm still curious about the blade, and the distinct raised central ridge reminds me of an earlier native khanda blade that has been ground down to fit the much smaller opening in the hilt. This reminds me of the rapier blade khandas.

The idea of a spear blade that Rick suggested seems plausible also, and again the section recalls the Maasai spear.

All the best,
Jim

[Rick]

I think we might want to consider whether or not the hilt configuration would allow proper wrist movement for use as a main gauche .

IIRC in another thread we discussed the limiting of certain movements by the disc pommel .

[katana]

Hi Jim,
thank you for your comments Although, I feel it is easier just to say its a 'married piece', I still feel that this particular 'dagger' could be 'legitimate' and it would be a shame to ignore this 'possiblity'. I had hoped similar examples might be known. If this item is 'unique' there is little chance of proving whether this was a historical compilation or a 'made up' piece for re-sale. I sometimes wonder, whether sometimes ...we are too quick to denounce a particular weapon because it doesn't 'fit' into a 'known category'. I also wondered whether the blade with its Khanda shape had any significance...and I do agree that Rick's suggestion of a spearhead is a good possibility

Hi Rick ,
I am inclined to agree that the disc pommel would limit wrist movement, perhaps less so for an Indian warrior if the 'smaller hand theory' is correct. I did / do not think that the European style of sword use would have been adopted ... I think likely 'adapted'. I used the term 'main gauche' as a sort of European equivalent...but the technique of use, I believe, would be different. I am working on the assumption that this was made for a particular 'function' ....and it seems to 'fit the bill' as some sort of parrying 'sword', although, of course, there are other possible uses.

Kind Regards David

[ward]

when it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. This is a marriage and not a good one. I have seen locals banging these items together for resale. If it had been done in period it would at least be more functional.

[Andrew]

I'm going to go further than I originally did with this. Not only do I think this blade is not original to the hilt, but I do not believe it was put together "for use".

The complete absence of similar weapons in the Indian tradition speaks volumes in this regard. Many shorter-bladed weapons were produced in India, but none with that type of hilt. There are reasons for this, not the least of which is the fact that hilt doesn't work well with a short blade. Use as a "main gauche" as David has suggested, would be much easier if the handle was one that permitted free movement of the wrist. Is it possible that someone did this to use it so? Certainly. However, Occam's Razor suggests otherwise.

[katana]

Originally Posted by ward

when it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. This is a marriage and not a good one. I have seen locals banging these items together for resale. If it had been done in period it would at least be more functional.

Hi Ward,
perhaps my enthusiasm sometimes gets the better of me. But, if the locals are banging these out, someone here must have seen one/bought one ?

Hi Andrew,
thanks for 'putting it gently', 'occum's razor' is certainly the way to go....with no other valid data.

Kind Regards David


A duck..... or rabbit ??

.

[ward]

You have to be kidding. They pick up anything that possibly can fit together and do. I have seen tulwars with bayonets shoved into them,indian helmets with spear spikes welded onto the tops, I beleive there was a post recently of some wooden spear/staffs made out of japanesse scabords. The rule usually is the least amount of work and costing the least is what is thrown together. In a lot of these countries eating is a lot more important than education and money is made at the moment not long term sitting for sale.

[katana]

Originally Posted by ward

You have to be kidding. They pick up anything that possibly can fit together and do. I have seen tulwars with bayonets shoved into them,indian helmets with spear spikes welded onto the tops, I beleive there was a post recently of some wooden spear/staffs made out of japanesse scabords. The rule usually is the least amount of work and costing the least is what is thrown together. In a lot of these countries eating is a lot more important than education and money is made at the moment not long term sitting for sale.

Thanks Ward for putting it into context, obviously tribal Africans are also in the same boat. With India's rapid industrial growth in recent years its easy to forget that for a section of the population there is still poverty.

Regards David