Keris Found From A shipwreck

BluErf · 25th March 2005, 08:49 AM

Hi Samsol,

You need to post some pictures in order for us to help you ID the keris. You can do so using the "Attach Files" function when you post a new message.

Raja Muda · 25th March 2005, 09:13 AM

This is exciting. I've always wondered what a dateable blade from that period would look like

Hope the pictures come up soon

John · 25th March 2005, 04:08 PM

Samsol,

Is that the keris mentioned in this press release?

http://www.terengganutourism.com/press%20release3.htm

Been waiting to see pictures of it and it doesn't seem "long" as mentioned in the releases (described as a "long keris"). What are the measurements? Looks a touch of Bugis?

BluErf · 25th March 2005, 04:45 PM

So far, I've only seen Sumatran kerises with rattan bound around the lower part of the batang. But without seeing the original sampir (corroded away) and the blade, its really a big question mark.

Bill · 25th March 2005, 05:40 PM

Why is it believed that this ship was made in the Philippines? Is these any way to post the X-rays & any dimensions of whatever possible. When first found they were refering to this as a sundang, now a keris, which for all purpose is the same, I guess. Seems from what is available to be more a Moro Kris or Bugis Sundang.

nechesh · 25th March 2005, 06:18 PM

Cool!

Combines two interests of mine at once, Archeology (especially marine) and, of course, keris. I think Blu might be on to something with a Sumatran attribution, but the blade could very well be a Javanese one in Sumatran dress. Not much to go on from the illustrations.
I agree with John that it doesn't appear particularly long, but the pictures could be deceptive. It doesn't appear to be a sundang. Bill, do you have a link to the releases that referred to it as such? I would have to disagree that a sundang and a keris are the same thing for all purposes, as you say. Kissing cousins, perhaps.

Also, i don't see anywhere where the ship is said to have been made in the Philippines. Is that also from the early report you saw?

fearn · 25th March 2005, 07:38 PM

Well, I'll admit I'm confused.

That third illustration looks like an x-ray view of a 9 or 11 luk blade inside the sheath. Am I the only one who sees it? All the comments I'm reading suggest that either no one else is seeing the posted pictures, or that I'm interpreting the last two in a dramatically different way than everyone else is.

What does everyone else see in the last two images?

Fearn

Bill · 25th March 2005, 07:45 PM

Think this must be the wreck that was mentioned awhile back, when it was first announced, it was mentioned in this forum. Seen the "Keris Sundang" label quite abit, think its even on a Malay postage stamp. Wonder why its being refered to as a Portuguese ship built in the PI, not doubting the experts, just interested in, why? Seems more likely the Portuguese would have seized the ship in an engagement or outright pirated it, than commissioned it. In this time period Spain & Portuguese had a treaty dividing the PI for Spain, & Celebes, Spice Islands to the later; but they both constantly violated thier agreement. Early Bugis did rely on the PI for its boat building so it does make sence the Portuguese in Celebes might do the same.

25th March 2005, 09:13 AM	#2
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Keris from Wreck This is exciting. I've always wondered what a dateable blade from that period would look like Hope the pictures come up soon

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25th March 2005, 08:49 AM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Samsol, You need to post some pictures in order for us to help you ID the keris. You can do so using the "Attach Files" function when you post a new message.

25th March 2005, 04:08 PM	#3
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Samsol, Is that the keris mentioned in this press release? http://www.terengganutourism.com/press%20release3.htm Been waiting to see pictures of it and it doesn't seem "long" as mentioned in the releases (described as a "long keris"). What are the measurements? Looks a touch of Bugis?

25th March 2005, 04:45 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	So far, I've only seen Sumatran kerises with rattan bound around the lower part of the batang. But without seeing the original sampir (corroded away) and the blade, its really a big question mark.

25th March 2005, 05:40 PM	#5
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Why is it believed that this ship was made in the Philippines? Is these any way to post the X-rays & any dimensions of whatever possible. When first found they were refering to this as a sundang, now a keris, which for all purpose is the same, I guess. Seems from what is available to be more a Moro Kris or Bugis Sundang.

25th March 2005, 06:18 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Cool! Combines two interests of mine at once, Archeology (especially marine) and, of course, keris. I think Blu might be on to something with a Sumatran attribution, but the blade could very well be a Javanese one in Sumatran dress. Not much to go on from the illustrations. I agree with John that it doesn't appear particularly long, but the pictures could be deceptive. It doesn't appear to be a sundang. Bill, do you have a link to the releases that referred to it as such? I would have to disagree that a sundang and a keris are the same thing for all purposes, as you say. Kissing cousins, perhaps. Also, i don't see anywhere where the ship is said to have been made in the Philippines. Is that also from the early report you saw?

25th March 2005, 07:38 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Well, I'll admit I'm confused. That third illustration looks like an x-ray view of a 9 or 11 luk blade inside the sheath. Am I the only one who sees it? All the comments I'm reading suggest that either no one else is seeing the posted pictures, or that I'm interpreting the last two in a dramatically different way than everyone else is. What does everyone else see in the last two images? Fearn

25th March 2005, 07:45 PM	#8
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Think this must be the wreck that was mentioned awhile back, when it was first announced, it was mentioned in this forum. Seen the "Keris Sundang" label quite abit, think its even on a Malay postage stamp. Wonder why its being refered to as a Portuguese ship built in the PI, not doubting the experts, just interested in, why? Seems more likely the Portuguese would have seized the ship in an engagement or outright pirated it, than commissioned it. In this time period Spain & Portuguese had a treaty dividing the PI for Spain, & Celebes, Spice Islands to the later; but they both constantly violated thier agreement. Early Bugis did rely on the PI for its boat building so it does make sence the Portuguese in Celebes might do the same.