UK bans Japanese swords.

Tim Simmons · 17th December 2007, 04:36 PM

I cannot say I am bothered about these swords but it is a ridiculous knee jerk reaction. They are not my taste and an it could be seen as an erosion of personal freedom for a certain level of UK citizen. It might be through one of these swords that a person gets interested in a much more like us.

One can cry about freedom all you like, generally we do not like guns and knives in the UK {sporting guns are an exception unless you carry one around town} If you are not stupid and are aware of the fear the inappropriate public display of weapons have here in the UK you will be okay.

Jim McDougall · 17th December 2007, 04:45 PM

Generally try to avoid 'politics' but cannot resist commenting on the relentless advance of stupidity in lawmaking. Obviously if someone is about to commit a crime there they will avoid using a Samurai sword, uh, because they're illegal?
I cannot help think of the thousands of crimes committed using cars.....gee I hope they dont outlaw them! What would the oil companies do!! Hmmmm.

katana · 17th December 2007, 05:05 PM

I suppose they'll ban this new 'fangled' hedge trimmer ....as well

HEDGE TRIMMER

Here is the 'quality' katana wall hanger in use .. a deadly weapon ....... Oh ....I,m scared

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUUinBekDZI

Here a 'seller' realises why these cheap swords are so dangerous...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzV6J3SQ8Qs

Rick · 17th December 2007, 05:50 PM

Throw the Mary Poppins legislators out of Parliament .

Only reason these swords are going illegal is because someone attacked a British Politician with one .........

Andy Stevens · 17th December 2007, 06:23 PM

My mother has a sawn off rolling pin!!

Criminal women.

spiral · 17th December 2007, 06:38 PM

The scaryist thing about it was 6 months ago there definition of a Samuri sword was a sword with a "curved blade" It will be intresting to see there next set of diffinitions etc. unless the same sword can be sold as Chinese or mongolian swords which somehow I doubt.

I have a 21inch kukri with a curved blade, which could fit there original definition of a samari sword! {they dont define the direction of curve or length.]

The current home office release points out that most Samurai Art Swords are over 100 years old so will be exempt. Which looks like they may be going to ban even the sale of Gunto & Gendiato from ww2.

untill they show the actual wording of the new law, I cant tell what type of swords it will realy effect. The law is to be introduced in April apparently.

Spiral

David · 18th December 2007, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

I suppose they'll ban this new 'fangled' hedge trimmer ....as well

HEDGE TRIMMER

Here is the 'quality' katana wall hanger in use .. a deadly weapon ....... Oh ....I,m scared

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUUinBekDZI

Here a 'seller' realises why these cheap swords are so dangerous...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzV6J3SQ8Qs

David, these videos are too funny!

fearn · 18th December 2007, 04:26 AM

Hmmm. I'm going to point out some problems with the standard line, and make a suggestion.

1. Correlation is not causation. That got drummed into me in grad school. For instance, I'd guess that Washington DC has the most restrictive gun laws possibly because it has a lot of shootings, not the other way 'round. Of course, not every place that experiences many shootings outlaws guns, and some places (like the UK) outlaw things even when they're not a major problem (like guns).

2. Outlawing the weapons is pointless, because they're too easy to make. Any clown with a bar of metal, a grinder, and some duct tape can turn out a cheap sword. The best such laws can do is disarm honest citizens and bring in fine money from people prosecuted under the act.

3. I'd suggest that we take a couple of approaches for us to take, if we want to talk to politicians.

a. The flight 93 approach. So far, the US government has prevented 0 of 4 airborne terrorist attacks, whereas an ad-hoc group of citizens stopped one attack using improvised weapons and died in the attempt. An armed, loyal citizenry is a potent deterrent to terrorism and other crimes, and it is arguably 400% more effective than the US government in preventing attacks already in progress.

b. The "swords don't shoot through homes" approach. As an apartment dweller, I always favored bladed weapons or shotguns for home defense, because they didn't end up in the kids next door (as bullets do). Blades are good this way.

c. The import/manufacturing fee approach. I wouldn't mind paying a fee to own a sword, provided said fee was higher than the price of the average cheap sword from China. If people have to pay import fees to bring cheap swords into the country, it will make cheap junk swords less cost-effective, and (forlorn hope) might stem the tide of cheap swords, knives, etc. coming in from China and elsewhere. This is in our interests as collectors.

d. The "you want to ban military sabers?" approach. "Katana" is not a synonym for any curved sword, and I think some officers would be seriously annoyed about having to give up their dress sabers. I've seen this technique work in other contexts. Help the lawmakers define the blades they want to ban, and if you do it right, it will help you keep your favorite swords. For instance, define "outlaw katanas" as blades that are not laminated, are of set dimensions, shape, materials, and design, etc. Make sure that nothing in your collection meets the outlaw definition, and you're safe. Maybe not so principled, but there you have it.

My 0.02 cents,

F

17th December 2007, 05:05 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I suppose they'll ban this new 'fangled' hedge trimmer ....as well HEDGE TRIMMER Here is the 'quality' katana wall hanger in use .. a deadly weapon ....... Oh ....I,m scared http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUUinBekDZI Here a 'seller' realises why these cheap swords are so dangerous... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzV6J3SQ8Qs Last edited by katana; 17th December 2007 at 05:54 PM.

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17th December 2007, 04:36 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I cannot say I am bothered about these swords but it is a ridiculous knee jerk reaction. They are not my taste and an it could be seen as an erosion of personal freedom for a certain level of UK citizen. It might be through one of these swords that a person gets interested in a much more like us. One can cry about freedom all you like, generally we do not like guns and knives in the UK {sporting guns are an exception unless you carry one around town} If you are not stupid and are aware of the fear the inappropriate public display of weapons have here in the UK you will be okay.

17th December 2007, 04:45 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Generally try to avoid 'politics' but cannot resist commenting on the relentless advance of stupidity in lawmaking. Obviously if someone is about to commit a crime there they will avoid using a Samurai sword, uh, because they're illegal? I cannot help think of the thousands of crimes committed using cars.....gee I hope they dont outlaw them! What would the oil companies do!! Hmmmm.

17th December 2007, 05:50 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Throw the Mary Poppins legislators out of Parliament . Only reason these swords are going illegal is because someone attacked a British Politician with one .........

17th December 2007, 06:23 PM	#5
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	My mother has a sawn off rolling pin!! Criminal women.

17th December 2007, 06:38 PM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	The scaryist thing about it was 6 months ago there definition of a Samuri sword was a sword with a "curved blade" It will be intresting to see there next set of diffinitions etc. unless the same sword can be sold as Chinese or mongolian swords which somehow I doubt. I have a 21inch kukri with a curved blade, which could fit there original definition of a samari sword! {they dont define the direction of curve or length.] The current home office release points out that most Samurai Art Swords are over 100 years old so will be exempt. Which looks like they may be going to ban even the sale of Gunto & Gendiato from ww2. untill they show the actual wording of the new law, I cant tell what type of swords it will realy effect. The law is to be introduced in April apparently. Spiral

18th December 2007, 04:26 AM	#8
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hmmm. I'm going to point out some problems with the standard line, and make a suggestion. 1. Correlation is not causation. That got drummed into me in grad school. For instance, I'd guess that Washington DC has the most restrictive gun laws possibly because it has a lot of shootings, not the other way 'round. Of course, not every place that experiences many shootings outlaws guns, and some places (like the UK) outlaw things even when they're not a major problem (like guns). 2. Outlawing the weapons is pointless, because they're too easy to make. Any clown with a bar of metal, a grinder, and some duct tape can turn out a cheap sword. The best such laws can do is disarm honest citizens and bring in fine money from people prosecuted under the act. 3. I'd suggest that we take a couple of approaches for us to take, if we want to talk to politicians. a. The flight 93 approach. So far, the US government has prevented 0 of 4 airborne terrorist attacks, whereas an ad-hoc group of citizens stopped one attack using improvised weapons and died in the attempt. An armed, loyal citizenry is a potent deterrent to terrorism and other crimes, and it is arguably 400% more effective than the US government in preventing attacks already in progress. b. The "swords don't shoot through homes" approach. As an apartment dweller, I always favored bladed weapons or shotguns for home defense, because they didn't end up in the kids next door (as bullets do). Blades are good this way. c. The import/manufacturing fee approach. I wouldn't mind paying a fee to own a sword, provided said fee was higher than the price of the average cheap sword from China. If people have to pay import fees to bring cheap swords into the country, it will make cheap junk swords less cost-effective, and (forlorn hope) might stem the tide of cheap swords, knives, etc. coming in from China and elsewhere. This is in our interests as collectors. d. The "you want to ban military sabers?" approach. "Katana" is not a synonym for any curved sword, and I think some officers would be seriously annoyed about having to give up their dress sabers. I've seen this technique work in other contexts. Help the lawmakers define the blades they want to ban, and if you do it right, it will help you keep your favorite swords. For instance, define "outlaw katanas" as blades that are not laminated, are of set dimensions, shape, materials, and design, etc. Make sure that nothing in your collection meets the outlaw definition, and you're safe. Maybe not so principled, but there you have it. My 0.02 cents, F