Inscriptions in Navajas, for Chris and who else

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gav,

Originally Posted by freebooter

I am still not 100% convinced about the Toledo blade being very modern, there is nothing stamped about this navaja(to my eyes), it is all, what I believe, engraved, etched or chiselled, the lines are so crisp and delicate in many places. I do remember Laura from knifecollection some years ago put this around circa 1900-1910 as she too was watching the auction at the time and wanted to add it to her stock.

OK. we here a obviously Spanish style non functional souvenir grade navaja manufactured some time ago, but we don't know when. Apart from the ubiquitous "TOLEDO" there is nothing else to identify it.

In such cases we can only do the following:

a) Carefully examine the piece and try and detect the technology used in its manufacture, such as blanking of the blade, the mode of construction as for example cast or the earlier riveted sheet handle frame, indications of machining and die forgings, mechanical polishing, electroplating, type of engraving used, materials employed and any other evidence of advanced manufacturing. All this is then to be compared with periods of known cutlery output from Spain.

b) Try to estimate the probable age of the piece from condition and type of paint used to fill up the engraving. A powerful clue is whether the gold effect was obtained with powdered pigment paint or a thin coat of translucent "gold" laquer applied over a silvery electro plated surface. The way to detect this is to examine the area in question under a low power microscope (20x-50x) and with a scalpel gently scratch away at the surface. If this technology was used, then after removal of the coat of lacquer a shiny silver surface will be revealed

Now, we do know that

a) Up to around 60s, cutlery in Spain was a cottage industry, using only the most rudimentary tools and basic materials. After that, it modernized;

b) There was flood of cheap souvenir daggers, and swords in the 60s and 70s with cast metal handles and plated blades using the above "faux" gold plating, all etch engraved and painted with enamels. As far as I can ascertain, the sequence of paint deposition was as follows:

1st coat: Silvery electro plating
2nd coat: Translucent "gold"lacquer
3d coat : Colored enamel, the "gold" lacquer serving as an undercoat/primer.

I have not seen any earlier Spanish decorative cutlery that utilized this "faux" gold finish.

c) We also do know that cast metal navaja handles became widespread sometime after around 1960. This how most of the modern imitation junk navajas are made. The only way to get a "real" navaja, built by traditional means (Spanish "artesanal") these days is to have one custom made. If still producing, then the navajas of Exposito are exempted from these remarks.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Chris

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks again Chris, your insight is invaluable.

[Jim McDougall]

I would like to thank Fernando, Chris and Freebooter for providing such valuable insight here on these most esoteric and intriguing weapons!! This thread has developed into a most comprehensive resource for understanding more on the navaja, especially for those of us not well versed in Spanish and not having access to the references noted here.
This kind of attention to detail and specific discussion are exactly what make this forum outstanding in learning the history and development of so many weapon forms!

Thanks so much guys for such informative posts !

All the best,
Jim

[fernando]

Hi Jim,
I thank your thanking me, but my participation was residual .
Chris is undoubtfully the guy for the podium
I truly apreciate his virtue to examine things ( Navajas for the case ) to the ultimate detail.
Fernando

[Jim McDougall]

Well said Fernando! He indeed has outstanding knowledge on these weapons!
I am impressed overall by all of you as a group here and constantly learn from the discussions on threads such as this, and your initial posting here set the wheels in motion.

All best regards,
Jim

[Chris Evans]

Gentlemen,

Thank you.

I was a young boy when given my first navaja, it was just like these two. As you can probably tell, almost 60yrs later my enthusiasm for this curious breed of folders remains undiminished.

Fernando has made many valuable contributions on this subject and he enjoys the added advantage of not only being fluent in Spanish, but also Portuguese and deserves a special thanks. Now that I think of it, I for one would love to read something from him on navajas in his country - After all, Portugal and Spain are right next to each other.

In closing, I just like to say what a nice forum this is. This is exemplified by the seemingly unending wealth of Jim McDougall's knowledge on all kinds of edged weapons. A real pleasure to be posting here.

Cheers
Chris

[fernando]

Hi Chris

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Fernando ... enjoys the added advantage of not only being fluent in Spanish, but also Portuguese.

You mean i am un-fluent in Spanish ( Castellano ) and a-fluent in Portuguese. Both languages are familiar and is quite easy to check what you want to say with the help of the Internet miracle. You type the word you feel that must exist, in the browser, and in one nanosecond you get the confirmation of the term ... with the right spelling.

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Now that I think of it, I for one would love to read something from him on navajas in his country - After all, Portugal and Spain are right next to each other

Chris, you are getting me into troubles

I have not much to say about it, starting by my lack of background on the subject.
Please consider the following as a digestive overview, with no expertize comitment ... at all

It appears that he Spanish Navaja, with its semanthic implications, found no replica in Portugal. I mean the Navaja comprehending the device that locks it open, intentionaly for use as a weapon ... the aledged result of sword prohibition.
These were and are called in Portugal, Navalhas de ponta e mola ( point and spring ), and they could and still can be seen around, but basicaly imported from Spain ... partly smuggled in the old days. Contraband between the two borders was a "normal" way of life.

We do have Portuguese Navalhas, or Canivetes when they are small, but without the charisma of those developed by our neighbours. We have them in several styles and dimensions, but no lock built on them. Not that they would not contextualy be used as weapons, but this would demand some care from the user, under risk of folding it with the stroke and cut his fingers, rather than cutting his oponent's guts .
So undoubtfully when a ( Portuguese ) guy intended to equip himself with a fighting piece, he would acquire a Spanish locking example in the black market.

Portuguese knives are, like in Spain, made by industrial cuttlers and also by several small artisans. We still see the late in artisan fairs, all over the country.
Also custom made specimens appear in "boutiques", with exhuberant design, for elite customers, at speechless prices.

But our registered background is rather modern, comparing with that of "nuestros hermanos".
The first regiment for professional cuttlery was published around 1770, a consequence of traditional sword making, which was an abundant occupation in prior days.
This not avoiding that utensile small knives ( Navalhas ) were not made in different chanels ... but i don't think so. Daggers would be more the issue.

But in order "not to leave the credit in allien hands", i will here attach a picture of a Portuguese specimen, of traditional form and fully operational ... only that it weighs 122 kilos and measures 3,90 meters. This piece was made to acquire the title of biggest existing Navalha, and is so registered in the Guiness book of records.
All the best
Fernando