A Unique Kattar?

[Tomb22]

Hi Rand,
Thanks for your information regarding the proper name. I have looked at many of the comments on this forum and have appreciated the depth of knowledge and willingness to share from the group as well as the patience that seems to be extended to us newbies. Very admirable.

This particular Jamadhar seems to have very sharp teeth. I have looked at a lot of pictures and this is the only serrated one that I have seen. That, and what appears to be a "Cobra blade" is why I felt that it might be a little unique. I have not been able to determine any wootz or other metalurgical characteristics. The blade appears to have been polished???

Also, the serrations and sharpness of the blade make it seem like it was to be used in "slicing and dicing" as well as what appears to be the more conventional "pushing" or "punching."

Thanks again for your information. I have received this particular piece from my grandfather through my mother. He was a collector but more along the lines of World War I and II German Lugers. I am most interested in as much information and history as is available, particularly about age, region. I understand that it would be almost impossible to know the history of this particular blade, but it would be really interesting to know more about the type and possible uses.

I was told by the gentleman that showed me the Cobra blade that,

"The extensive decorations in the form of chiselling and gold koftgari (inlay) indicate that this was a court piece, not a battle weapon. You've kept it in good condition, but it is apparent that it never suffered any damage. The pierced work was not to keep the piece light, rather it was decorative. Some hilts in the south - Tanjore for example - feature extremely complex fretwork in silver and gold. The blades themselves are sometimes very delicately pierced with intricate designs."

Tom

[Tomb22]

Thanks to you too Jim,
In observing the many discussions on this forum, you seem to have not only extensive knowledge but also a wisdom and calmness that keeps things flowing smoothly.

I appreciate your comments and they seem to confirm the possible court use. Wouldn't that possibility help to narrow down its history a little?

One of my comments is that the hand area of the hilt seems very small to me and I have small hands for a man. Also, the hilt area has many, numerous tiny holes that go all the way through. I had thought that maybe it was created for a female? The gentleman quoted previously, indicated that he was of the school of thought that the size was more related to smaller nature of men at that time and that the holes were part of the decorative design. I had felt that maybe the holes were to lighten the weight? Wouldn't they have to use something in the casting to make the holes? Or did they actually have some device that would allow them to "drill" so to speak?

I apologize for not using both cm and inches in the original post. The blade is 16.25 inches and the overall length is 22 inches. The circle is 2.4 inches in diameter. It seems like the "chiseling" to make the hilt would take a lot of time. I am amazed at I look at some of the other edged weapons on this forum how intricate as well as labor intensive the work of creating some of these beautiful blades were.

Regards
Tom

[katana]

Hi Tom,
Beautiful Katar
There is the possibillity that the small holes in the hilt is where chain mail or leather protection was fixed, usually by small metal rings. If this is the case it surely suggests that not only was this intended for use, but also the owner had very high status.

David

[Tomb22]

David,
Thanks for the input. If you look at the 3rd picture down, the one showing the Tiger and hilt - Then focus on the area where the 3 rivets are, you will see many little tiny dark spots all through out that dark area. Those are the piercings or "drill holes" as I call them. They go completely through the metal. They are also in and all through the dark areas of the protective bars. They are so small and so uniform, that I could think of no other reason then making the piece lighter. But, then as my friend from the other forum indicated, he thought that it might be part of the "decoration."

I know they are hard to see in these pictures and I will try and see if I can get a better close up. My camera doesn't do as well as I want with closeups so, will probably borrow a friends.

One of the fun things about this group is that with so many sharp people, thoughts and ideas pop out that I might not have ever thought about so, I really appreciate all comments as I am here to learn.

Thanks again,
Tom

[rand]

Hello Tom,

When determining the age of an object such as your katar that was in use for centuries, the style of ornamentation, quality of the lines, color of gold, blade all come into study. To make an accurate assessment very focused, clear and sharp images are needed.

For example: Your dagger has pierce work on the handle, but it is impossible to tell from the photo what shape the holes are or what type of chasing it has done.

Reguarding the gold overlay on the handle: The focus and lack of a macro photo showing great detail only allow a guess based on general style.

From my perspective the circular motifs on the handle hint at 18th century, pierce was more used in the 17-18th century all though some of the finest examples are 19th century. The color of the gold appears to be high carot, that suggests 18th century of earlier. The lines of the vegetal motif look a little irregular (may just be wear and lack of focus makes this very difficult to determine) and that hints 18-19th century.

If were to average this out an approximate 18th century time period would be one opinion. What you really need are very focused sharpes images(including a few macro shots) of all aspects fo you jamadhar.

rand

[Tomb22]

Hi Rand,
Yes, I can see that there is so much that goes into understanding these great blades. I have enjoyed the camera work for the really good close-ups on some of the threads. I have mentioned to myself and others for awhile that I need to get some better pictures. I will do so in the next couple of days and return. That will help for better viewing and discovery. I appreciate the instruction and will get it done.
Thanks
Tom

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Tom,
Thank you so much for the very kind comments! which are very much appreciated. I also really appreciate your posting this great example of Indian weaponry for discussion. Weapons such as this are great incentive to really hit the books, and present great opportunity for learning more on the weapons of India.

Concerning the serrated edges on the blade, although this feature affords the weapon a rather fearsome appearance, it has often been debated that it actually can prove counterproductive in various instances of use. This is likely the reason for more blades not being produced with this feature, and those with it are typically parade or court weapons, and the nagan theme often associated with many of them. In the case of the 'cobra' type blades, the presumed 'hood' is congruent with the hilt which would be considered the head. In your example the widened disc is further down the blade from the hilt, which is why it seems to disqualify the 'cobra' symbolism, yet the wavy serrations may still carry the nagan theme.

In viewing the interesting scene on the disc which includes a tiger, it would be quite worthwhile to consider the Tipu Sultan weapons, in which he used the tiger often allegorically in many themes and forms of symbolism. If this proved to be pre 1799, which seems quite plausible, the potential for this weapon may be extremely important.

Rand has offered some outstanding observations in trying to establish the proper date presumed in these weapons, which can truly be difficult as the traditional forms remained in use for centuries.

Very good suggestion on the pierced holes for attachment of chain link armour by David .I honestly had not thought of this for an Indian piece, but could well be valid. The protection for the hand was of considerable concern as evidenced by the elaborate hand guards often seen on Tanjore items, and of course the development of the gauntlet sword (pata). While I cannot recall ever seeing such attachment of mail on a weapon, it of course was the manner of attachment for the aventail on the helmet (kulah khud).

All very best regards,
Jim