Dohong on Ebay

Mytribalworld · 27th June 2007, 09:31 AM

just put this on Ebay

Bill M · 27th June 2007, 10:42 AM

I bought a Dayak bird that Arjan carved and can attest to his skill at making high quality carvings. The bird was patinated to look old and it does. I am impressed by his skill and attention to detail.

My wife, Anne loves the bird and features it prominently in her "kitchen gallery."

He does an excellent job and is very honest in his descriptions and work. I also appreciate him marking the Dohong so no unscrupulous person could buy this and try to re-sell it as an old one.

Here is a link to the dohong.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dayak-Borneo-rar...QQcmdZViewItem

VANDOO · 27th June 2007, 04:38 PM

IT IS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THE BLADE SHAPE RESEMBLES THE TRADITIONAL SPEAR TIPS USED IN THE LANDS OF THE NAGA OF ASSAM AND OTHER AREAS.

Dajak · 27th June 2007, 05:11 PM

The dohung looks different from the original

Ben

Mytribalworld · 27th June 2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

The dohung looks different from the original

Ben

Wich " original" do you mean Ben?

as you see there are so much varies of the Dohong......

Arjan.

Dajak · 27th June 2007, 07:58 PM

the first picture that you show is an sadap
the second is an dohung does not look like yours picture

the 3 an drawing
better follow the pics than the drawings

yours is not bad
but dohung mostly has an fat handle and more space between blade and handle

Ben

Dajak · 27th June 2007, 08:26 PM

The Dohong was most likely the traditional sword/knife before the mandau.
So most Dohongs are from before 1850 and there are not many in museum collections.

First this is not proven what you put in your advertisement

It was in use with funurals never used as an weapon

IT IS AN STORY THAT IT WAS THE NATIONAL WEAPON FROM THE DAYAKS BUT NEVER BEEN PROVEN
this can be read page 379
it say s that it is not believeble that is was the national weapon look below the page 379 point 1

it also says that Sal Müller tells that the ivory handle might proof that it is from an different culture and date back to the madjapahit rules over the coast from borneo

this can be read in the catalogus van s'rijks ethnographisch museum deel 2 Borneo

Brill 1910 page 378

THE FIRST PIC IS NOT AN DOHONG BUT AN OTHER KNIFE

THE SECOND PIC IS AN DOHONG

THE 3 DRAWING IS ALSO AN DOHONG

And look dimension Handle to the blade that is what I mean

Ben

Mytribalworld · 28th June 2007, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

The Dohong was most likely the traditional sword/knife before the mandau.
So most Dohongs are from before 1850 and there are not many in museum collections.

First this is not proven what you put in your advertisement

It was in use with funurals never used as an weapon

IT IS AN STORY THAT IT WAS THE NATIONAL WEAPON FROM THE DAYAKS BUT NEVER BEEN PROVEN
this can be read page 379
it say s that it is not believeble that is was the national weapon look below the page 379 point 1

it also says that Sal Müller tells that the ivory handle might proof that it is from an different culture and date back to the madjapahit rules over the coast from borneo

this can be read in the catalogus van s'rijks ethnographisch museum deel 2 Borneo

Brill 1910 page 378

THE FIRST PIC IS NOT AN DOHONG BUT AN OTHER KNIFE

THE SECOND PIC IS AN DOHONG

THE 3 DRAWING IS ALSO AN DOHONG

And look dimension Handle to the blade that is what I mean

Ben

Hi Ben,

I also did my homework.
I agree with you that its not proven that the dohong was traditional used as a weapon.In those times there where no photographs made.
But we have also the work of Ave ,he stayed a long time among the Ngadjoe in south Borneo and was witness of many Tiwah's.
I think you can't just wipe away his knowlegde.
I follwed his seminar about Dayak art and culture in 1992.

I agree that in much descriptions the dohong is described as ritual dagger.
Besides that we also have a marvelous dagger in the hands of a quite warlike culture......imposible to say then that it " never" has been used as a weapon.
It comparable as beiing locked up with a beautifull naked woman for 3 days in the toilet and declared afterwards nothing has happened.....

The drawing on wich I refer is from the same series as you refer in the tread about the sadop in this forum.

The dagger in the first picture is described in the book from Volkenkunde Rotterdam and surely there the word "Duhung" in it!
However many Dohongs has more or less the same shape you can't wipe all those dagger away with a different model as " not Dohong".

To complete a few dohungs from volkenkunde Leiden.
as you see its not always that short thick hilt.

VANDOO · 28th June 2007, 06:40 PM

AS I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THESE DAGGERS ABOUT ALL I CAN SAY IS. THE EXAMPLES COLLECTED BY SCIENTISTS, EXPLORERS ,ECT WOULD HAVE MOST LIKELY BEEN THE MOST ORNATE EXAMPLES THEY COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON. SO THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN LESS LIKELY TO HAVE COLLECTED THE MORE COMMON LESS ORNATE EXAMPLES. THIS LACK OF A COLECTION OF REPRESENITIVE EXAMPLES COVERING THE RANGE OF WEAPONS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME CAN OFTEN BE MISLEADING. I HAVE ALSO BEEN GUILTY OF THIS I TEND TO WANT THE ITEM THAT I FIND MOST ATTRACTIVE EVEN IF IT IS NOT LIKE THE ONES MOST COMMONLY USED.

AT ANY RATE YOU BOTH HAVE VALID POINTS AND THE DISCUSSION DOES ADD TO OUR KNOWLEGE. WE ALL DO THE BEST WE CAN WHILE WE WAIT FOR THE INVENTION OF THE TIME MACHINE.

I WILL TRY AND PUT IN A PICTURE OF THE NAGA SPEAR FORM THAT RESEMBLES THE DAGGER BLADE.

Dajak · 28th June 2007, 06:55 PM

Arjan I can you show pics from the Leiden museum where they pictured Atjeh sikim
tell it is from the Dajaks .

And if something is not proven don t make a big story out off it .

There also seminar s from professer s that tell you different it is what you wanna believe that is mostly with these things the problem

There are a lot off people who called they expert follow there own line telling what they think mostly not the way it was.

Fact is there is no drawing dajaks fighting with dohung s

Fact is they found an Dohung labeld priester sword

fact by that time they tell that it is an fairytale the story about the dohung being an weapon .

And you now but put different in your advertisement

why ???

Let s keep us to facts other wise use term I think that they use it as an weapon .

Size of the hilt compare the blade is different compare to the one you make that s what I was trying to tell

Ben

Mark · 28th June 2007, 08:02 PM

Everyone step back and take a deep breath. First of all, this is Swap, not the General forum, and therefore discussion should be limited to what directly relates to the sale. Second, even on the General forum, civility and respect must be maintained by all parties, toward all parties. I am seeing rather too little of that from certain quarters in this thread.

Dajak · 28th June 2007, 08:14 PM

Hi Mark and to all it is not my intention to attack anyone I now Arjan very well

But only to tell that in his advertisement are a few mistakes and that the dimensions Handle blade are different from the real ones .

so no hard feelings
Ben

Rick · 28th June 2007, 08:38 PM

Hi Ben,

No hard feelings at all; but this type of exchange should be kept to PM or email.

If you wish to start a thread about Dohongs the Ethno Forum would be the place.

Best,
Rick

Thread closed for Moderator review.

27th June 2007, 09:31 AM	#1
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	Dohong on Ebay just put this on Ebay Attached Images

27th June 2007, 10:42 AM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I bought a Dayak bird that Arjan carved and can attest to his skill at making high quality carvings. The bird was patinated to look old and it does. I am impressed by his skill and attention to detail. My wife, Anne loves the bird and features it prominently in her "kitchen gallery." He does an excellent job and is very honest in his descriptions and work. I also appreciate him marking the Dohong so no unscrupulous person could buy this and try to re-sell it as an old one. Here is a link to the dohong. http://cgi.ebay.com/Dayak-Borneo-rar...QQcmdZViewItem Last edited by Bill Marsh; 27th June 2007 at 10:52 AM.

28th June 2007, 06:40 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AS I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THESE DAGGERS ABOUT ALL I CAN SAY IS. THE EXAMPLES COLLECTED BY SCIENTISTS, EXPLORERS ,ECT WOULD HAVE MOST LIKELY BEEN THE MOST ORNATE EXAMPLES THEY COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON. SO THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN LESS LIKELY TO HAVE COLLECTED THE MORE COMMON LESS ORNATE EXAMPLES. THIS LACK OF A COLECTION OF REPRESENITIVE EXAMPLES COVERING THE RANGE OF WEAPONS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME CAN OFTEN BE MISLEADING. I HAVE ALSO BEEN GUILTY OF THIS I TEND TO WANT THE ITEM THAT I FIND MOST ATTRACTIVE EVEN IF IT IS NOT LIKE THE ONES MOST COMMONLY USED. AT ANY RATE YOU BOTH HAVE VALID POINTS AND THE DISCUSSION DOES ADD TO OUR KNOWLEGE. WE ALL DO THE BEST WE CAN WHILE WE WAIT FOR THE INVENTION OF THE TIME MACHINE. I WILL TRY AND PUT IN A PICTURE OF THE NAGA SPEAR FORM THAT RESEMBLES THE DAGGER BLADE. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 28th June 2007 at 07:30 PM. Reason: put in picture

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27th June 2007, 04:38 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT IS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THE BLADE SHAPE RESEMBLES THE TRADITIONAL SPEAR TIPS USED IN THE LANDS OF THE NAGA OF ASSAM AND OTHER AREAS.

27th June 2007, 05:11 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	The dohung looks different from the original Ben

27th June 2007, 07:58 PM	#6
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	the first picture that you show is an sadap the second is an dohung does not look like yours picture the 3 an drawing better follow the pics than the drawings yours is not bad but dohung mostly has an fat handle and more space between blade and handle Ben

27th June 2007, 08:26 PM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	The Dohong was most likely the traditional sword/knife before the mandau. So most Dohongs are from before 1850 and there are not many in museum collections. First this is not proven what you put in your advertisement It was in use with funurals never used as an weapon IT IS AN STORY THAT IT WAS THE NATIONAL WEAPON FROM THE DAYAKS BUT NEVER BEEN PROVEN this can be read page 379 it say s that it is not believeble that is was the national weapon look below the page 379 point 1 it also says that Sal Müller tells that the ivory handle might proof that it is from an different culture and date back to the madjapahit rules over the coast from borneo this can be read in the catalogus van s'rijks ethnographisch museum deel 2 Borneo Brill 1910 page 378 THE FIRST PIC IS NOT AN DOHONG BUT AN OTHER KNIFE THE SECOND PIC IS AN DOHONG THE 3 DRAWING IS ALSO AN DOHONG And look dimension Handle to the blade that is what I mean Ben

28th June 2007, 06:55 PM	#10
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Arjan I can you show pics from the Leiden museum where they pictured Atjeh sikim tell it is from the Dajaks . And if something is not proven don t make a big story out off it . There also seminar s from professer s that tell you different it is what you wanna believe that is mostly with these things the problem There are a lot off people who called they expert follow there own line telling what they think mostly not the way it was. Fact is there is no drawing dajaks fighting with dohung s Fact is they found an Dohung labeld priester sword fact by that time they tell that it is an fairytale the story about the dohung being an weapon . And you now but put different in your advertisement why ??? Let s keep us to facts other wise use term I think that they use it as an weapon . Size of the hilt compare the blade is different compare to the one you make that s what I was trying to tell Ben

28th June 2007, 08:02 PM	#11
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Everyone step back and take a deep breath. First of all, this is Swap, not the General forum, and therefore discussion should be limited to what directly relates to the sale. Second, even on the General forum, civility and respect must be maintained by all parties, toward all parties. I am seeing rather too little of that from certain quarters in this thread.

28th June 2007, 08:14 PM	#12
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Mark and to all it is not my intention to attack anyone I now Arjan very well But only to tell that in his advertisement are a few mistakes and that the dimensions Handle blade are different from the real ones . so no hard feelings Ben

28th June 2007, 08:38 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Ben, No hard feelings at all; but this type of exchange should be kept to PM or email. If you wish to start a thread about Dohongs the Ethno Forum would be the place. Best, Rick Thread closed for Moderator review.