khayber Sword

Rick · 23rd May 2007, 06:17 PM

A fancy piece , just closed.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

ward · 23rd May 2007, 08:49 PM

The circle motif are eyes of god basically coming from pre islam birds looking down at people. from the construction I would date to very end of 19th century

Montino Bourbon · 24th May 2007, 01:29 AM

Is done (IMHO) with a drill bit that makes a hole the diameter of the circle. the old bits have a guide tip in the center, like a modern Forstner bit.

Bill M · 24th May 2007, 02:16 AM

These circular patterns are common to several cultures. I would guess that with a compass-like tool, or a drill bit similar to a Forstner bit.

I have these patterns on an Afircan Lega/Wega ivory carving and a bichwa.

There is an interesting thread about these swords comparing them to some other weapons.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=khayber

According to Artzi, mine could be from Persia / Mideast area because it has walrus grips. Here is a pciture from that thread showing a khayber with koftgari. The koftgari traces on mine could indicate it once had a blade decorated like Artzi's

Jim McDougall · 24th May 2007, 03:08 PM

Thanks very much Bill, Ward, Montino and Jens for the observations on the circle motif. While the geometric symbol is obviously so simple, it really does seem consistant in these regions, although it does occur in other spheres as well.

I agree with Jens, I think there may well be a tribal or clan association with the varied hilts on the Khybers. I think the wider spectrum of Afghan weapons such as the shashkas and shamshirs may be more regionally oriented. What say you all?

Ariel, could you possibly say more on the hilt types you have observed?

all the best,
Jim

Bill M · 28th May 2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thanks very much Bill, Ward, Montino and Jens for the observations on the circle motif. While the geometric symbol is obviously so simple, it really does seem consistant in these regions, although it does occur in other spheres as well.

all the best,
Jim

Here are a few circle patterns from other areas.

Lega/Wega ivory statue (6" high) (Liberia - South Africa)

Ivory handle dagger - possibly North Sudan

Sword original to this post -- removed 19th c electrical tape

derek · 8th June 2007, 06:45 PM

There was another interesting old thread about the marks found on many of the blades: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001999.html

24th May 2007, 01:29 AM	#3
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	the circle motif... Is done (IMHO) with a drill bit that makes a hole the diameter of the circle. the old bits have a guide tip in the center, like a modern Forstner bit.

24th May 2007, 02:16 AM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	These circular patterns are common to several cultures. I would guess that with a compass-like tool, or a drill bit similar to a Forstner bit. I have these patterns on an Afircan Lega/Wega ivory carving and a bichwa. There is an interesting thread about these swords comparing them to some other weapons. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=khayber According to Artzi, mine could be from Persia / Mideast area because it has walrus grips. Here is a pciture from that thread showing a khayber with koftgari. The koftgari traces on mine could indicate it once had a blade decorated like Artzi's Attached Images Last edited by Bill Marsh; 24th May 2007 at 03:12 PM.

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23rd May 2007, 06:17 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	A fancy piece , just closed. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

23rd May 2007, 08:49 PM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	The circle motif are eyes of god basically coming from pre islam birds looking down at people. from the construction I would date to very end of 19th century

24th May 2007, 03:08 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Thanks very much Bill, Ward, Montino and Jens for the observations on the circle motif. While the geometric symbol is obviously so simple, it really does seem consistant in these regions, although it does occur in other spheres as well. I agree with Jens, I think there may well be a tribal or clan association with the varied hilts on the Khybers. I think the wider spectrum of Afghan weapons such as the shashkas and shamshirs may be more regionally oriented. What say you all? Ariel, could you possibly say more on the hilt types you have observed? all the best, Jim

8th June 2007, 06:45 PM	#7
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	There was another interesting old thread about the marks found on many of the blades: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001999.html