Indian Khanda hilt serpentine 'saw edged' blade

katana · 13th May 2007, 11:58 PM

Hi Gentlemen,
didn't bid high enough

but I think this is a genuine sword and would look 'pretty deadly' to the 'opposition'.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...8220&rd=1&rd=1

Comments, information gratefully recieved...

CourseEight · 14th May 2007, 02:13 AM

Well, I can't much speak to whether such a thing would ever be used in combat, but the naga-esque shape and the flare at the end brings to mind the shape of a cobra. Perhaps the symbology of the cobra in India might better indicate if it were ceremonial or not?

Shame the seller didn't post to the US. That's certainly a piece I'd like to have!

Jens Nordlunde · 14th May 2007, 03:04 PM

In Studies in Indian Weapons and Warfare by Pant, the author on page 153 notes that there are two types of serrated swords. One type where the back is serrated called Arapusta, and the other type, where both sides are serrated called Aradam.

The naga shaped blade with the broad tip, most likely represents a cobra, but I can’t imagine a blade like that can have been used for anything else than for ceremony, as the cutting ability can’t have been very good, and the balance must have been very bad.

Jim McDougall · 14th May 2007, 04:04 PM

The serpentine shape of this blade, as CourseEight has astutely observed, of course suggests ceremonial reference to the naga, distinctly significant throughout the Subcontinent.
Jens, thank you so much for the Pant reference, which gives us the term best applicable here (miss my books

!!

These serpentine weapons, in the case of swords, I cannot imagine being used in combat, however they do look deadly indeed. Psychological warfare was well in place from ancient times as military historians have often pointed out. While the serrated edge is extremely effective in cutting, and is employed in numerous applications in varied ethnographic cultures, especially Oceanic . The practical effect of the serrated edge would likely be not only compromised but mostly negated, by the recurving blade. Naturally, in a situation, some effect would be found if used, even if only for the contact of one of the outer curves making contact.

All the best,
Jim

katana · 14th May 2007, 06:09 PM

Hi Jim, Jens and CourseEight,
when researching this type of sword I found a reference to several 'unusual' serrated bladed swords being used in battle end of 17c early 18th. The prime function of these 'prototype (?)' swords was to cut armour....however, the soldiers did not like them and they were soon made redundant and discarded.
The reference was via a Google search and I have lost the link

I will try and re-discover it.

However, the hilt does look possible for late 17c/early 18c ....could be one of those 'discarded'.........

Probably wishful thinking on my part

Jens with the long spike pommel this sword may not have been too badly balanced .....if used two handed. It almost seems to be a cross between a sword and a 'hilted' mace.

Regards David

Jim McDougall · 14th May 2007, 10:50 PM

Hi David,
Thank you for that reference which it seems I have seen as well ( I think it may be in Pant.....Jens? help

I think the biggest problem with the blade on this is not as much the serration as the extremely counterproductive curvature of the blade.
Also, it seems unclear on the semantics of 'armour', which if mail or steel would be ridiculous to expect being cut by a blade. If the 'armour' was of the heavy textile type, more plausible maybe.

All the best,
Jim

spiral · 14th May 2007, 11:24 PM

Just going on its visual appearence but it looks impractical & poorly balanced to me.

Spiral

13th May 2007, 11:58 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Indian Khanda hilt serpentine 'saw edged' blade Hi Gentlemen, didn't bid high enough but I think this is a genuine sword and would look 'pretty deadly' to the 'opposition'. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...8220&rd=1&rd=1 Comments, information gratefully recieved... Attached Images

14th May 2007, 04:04 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	The serpentine shape of this blade, as CourseEight has astutely observed, of course suggests ceremonial reference to the naga, distinctly significant throughout the Subcontinent. Jens, thank you so much for the Pant reference, which gives us the term best applicable here (miss my books!! These serpentine weapons, in the case of swords, I cannot imagine being used in combat, however they do look deadly indeed. Psychological warfare was well in place from ancient times as military historians have often pointed out. While the serrated edge is extremely effective in cutting, and is employed in numerous applications in varied ethnographic cultures, especially Oceanic . The practical effect of the serrated edge would likely be not only compromised but mostly negated, by the recurving blade. Naturally, in a situation, some effect would be found if used, even if only for the contact of one of the outer curves making contact. All the best, Jim

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14th May 2007, 02:13 AM	#2
CourseEight Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 222	Well, I can't much speak to whether such a thing would ever be used in combat, but the naga-esque shape and the flare at the end brings to mind the shape of a cobra. Perhaps the symbology of the cobra in India might better indicate if it were ceremonial or not? Shame the seller didn't post to the US. That's certainly a piece I'd like to have!

14th May 2007, 03:04 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	In Studies in Indian Weapons and Warfare by Pant, the author on page 153 notes that there are two types of serrated swords. One type where the back is serrated called Arapusta, and the other type, where both sides are serrated called Aradam. The naga shaped blade with the broad tip, most likely represents a cobra, but I can’t imagine a blade like that can have been used for anything else than for ceremony, as the cutting ability can’t have been very good, and the balance must have been very bad.

14th May 2007, 06:09 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Jim, Jens and CourseEight, when researching this type of sword I found a reference to several 'unusual' serrated bladed swords being used in battle end of 17c early 18th. The prime function of these 'prototype (?)' swords was to cut armour....however, the soldiers did not like them and they were soon made redundant and discarded. The reference was via a Google search and I have lost the link I will try and re-discover it. However, the hilt does look possible for late 17c/early 18c ....could be one of those 'discarded'......... Probably wishful thinking on my part Jens with the long spike pommel this sword may not have been too badly balanced .....if used two handed. It almost seems to be a cross between a sword and a 'hilted' mace. Regards David

14th May 2007, 10:50 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Hi David, Thank you for that reference which it seems I have seen as well ( I think it may be in Pant.....Jens? help I think the biggest problem with the blade on this is not as much the serration as the extremely counterproductive curvature of the blade. Also, it seems unclear on the semantics of 'armour', which if mail or steel would be ridiculous to expect being cut by a blade. If the 'armour' was of the heavy textile type, more plausible maybe. All the best, Jim

14th May 2007, 11:24 PM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Just going on its visual appearence but it looks impractical & poorly balanced to me. Spiral