Murut Swords

[Dajak]

Hi here some pictures off pakayuns
Any one who wanna sell his pakayun just mail me

[Tim Simmons]

Wonderful.

[Flavio]

EXTRAORDINARY

[Alam Shah]

Excellent. Lovely Murut Pakayuns.
I have a question. Why is the pakayun's hilt shaped with the 2 points?
What is the significant of the design?

Opps! That's 2 questions...

[David]

Damn, Shahrial, that was going to be my question(s) as well.
DOES anyone know?

[Dajak]

It is because with the 3 points it was to big to hold in the Hand

The problem whit this there is very little writing on this weapon

Shelford did tell about this in an artikel that was presented in 1901 that the shape off the handle maybe compared whit the Y schaped handle off stag horn of the Mahakkam river parang ilang

I also look when anyone has a book off this subject let me know.


I think first style was like my avater than came
the fork style just because more easy to make.

(but don t now it for sure there is also another style off handle used by the Muruts)

[VVV]

Very nice,

I thought you were "full" after you got the latest Pakayun?

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi Michael I did found some open spot and the last one was so nice that it make me start again looking for them.

[CharlesS]

Magnificent collention Benny. Thanks for sharing.

...now if you want to sell any....I am only collecting Indo Malay swords these days. No more kerises for me.

[Bill M]

Very nice collection, Ben. Thanks for posting.

I would appreciate comments on mine.

[Dajak]

Hi Bill thanks for sending the pics I think this is an later type off pakayun the wooden handle is to long the brass piece too short the blade looks good.
Is it laminated the blade ???

It is different what we see on the old pakayuns also the scabbard different has no carving on it.

I have not see this type off pakayun at any pics off muruts nore in any book
so that is why I say it must be an later type .
But the blade might be from an old pakayun so might also be a new repair to an old blade.

You find these short brass collars on the other type off murut swords
but their blade are not so long.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Bill thanks for sending the pics I think this is an later type off pakayun the wooden handle is to long the brass piece too short the blade looks good.
Is it laminated the blade ???

It is different what we see on the old pakayuns also the scabbard different has no carving on it.

I have not see this type off pakayun at any pics off muruts nore in any book
so that is why I say it must be an later type .
But the blade might be from an old pakayun so might also be a new repair to an old blade.

You find these short brass collars on the other type off murut swords
but their blade are not so long.

Benny,

Thank you for your well thought out reply. I am unfamilair with these pieces, but like ithe patina on the handle.

I value your opinion because I know that you have been collecting in these areas for about 30 years and studied them well! I would call you an expert! And a nice guy!

The blade does seem to be laminated. It is also quite thick and heavy. A few nicks, but overall good condition.

Can you tell me more about what does "later" mean? Any idea of what year?

I can see that the handles on yours are shorter. Could this have been made for a larger person? My blade length is about 30 inches (76.2 cm) and the handle is about 6" (15.24 cm).

The workmanship seems solid.

Looking forward to visiting you in the Netherlands!

[Dajak]

Hi Bill it is hard to date that handle it is not old type

And in mine opinion they still make them this way using them as an wedding gift John that lives in Sabah could tell more about this

The blade is vey nice



The Handle off the old pakayuns with the brass collar 17 till 20 cm.

Yours is that with the brass collar ???

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Bill it is hard to date that handle it is not old type

And in mine opinion they still make them this way using them as an wedding gift John that lives in Sabah could tell more about this

The blade is vey nice

Benny,

Do you thing that the blade is older and possibly authentic?

I will get in touch with John. I know him very well. I will ask his opinion. I will ask him to post it here. I like learning and if this pakayun is not correct, I want to lean more about what is right so that I can buy that kind when I see one!

Maybe they used mine in the dance <smile>!

Originally Posted by Dajak

The Handle off the old pakayuns with the brass collar 17 till 20 cm.

Yours is that with the brass collar ???

Benny, what does this mean? Please explain further.

Warmest regards,
Bill

[VVV]

Bill,

I think Ben means that your brass collar is shorter than those on all of his Pakayun.
More the size of his Parang Sangkit, which is a different kind of Murut sword.
John has posted his 2 nice Pakayun in his gallery on the Kampungnet.

Here is another one of the very rare old style Pakayun.
I know that Ben doesn't think the red colour is traditional.
But the colour is already antique and I don't feel like changing anything.
I am a bit low on other Pakayun after Ben decided to focus his collecting.

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi Michael your pakayun has found a nice spot on the wall at my home
but now we have to talk about this one you showing

I only see 2 pakayuns with the middle carved and you now this is very old style the one in your hands and mine


Hi Bill the measure is from the brass collar to the end off the handle

The style off the old pakayuns is with long brass collar so are they pictured
in stone's Glossary and on old pics

Never see them with the long wooden handle so that is why this is in mine opinion this is not so old as the other ones with long brass collars

But not easy to date yours Bill scabbard is also without carving so later date
but blade does look like the old ones

But if you ever visit me it is easyer to explain for me

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Bill the measure is from the brass collar to the end off the handle

The style off the old pakayuns is with long brass collar so are they pictured
in stone's Glossary and on old pics

Never see them with the long wooden handle so that is why this is in mine opinion this is not so old as the other ones with long brass collars

But not easy to date yours Bill scabbard is also without carving so later date
but blade does look like the old ones

But if you ever visit me it is easyer to explain for me

Ben,

Ah, now I understand. The length of the brass collar! Now I see a big difference in mine and the others.

While I am happy to know more, I am a bit concerned that mine is not a good example as I thought it was.

Please understand that I am grateful that you pointed it out. I need to know.

I probably won't sell mine because I like the blade. I also like the wear patina on the handle.

But I am in the market for a correct one, an old correct one would be even better. I will PM you about this.

I am curious about the two points on the end of the handle that look different than most of yours. Is this also someting I should watch out for?

[VANDOO]

A VERY IMPRESSIVE COLLECTION AND ITS DIFFICULT TO EVEN HAVE ONE PACKAYUN IN YOUR COLLECTION SO CONGRADULATIONS TO ALL!!

I NOTICED THAT TWO OF BENS EXAMPLES AND MICHAEL'S EXAMPLE HAVE THE SMALL SHARP POINT WHERE THE BLADE NEARS THE HANDLE AND THE FORTE IS THINNER WHERE IT GOES INTO THE HANDLE TO FORM THE TANG. THIS FEATURE REMINDS ME OF THE BATACK PISO FORMS OF KNIVES. ALSO THE TIP ON ONE OF BEN'S EXAMPLES AND MICHAEL'S EXAMPLE DON'T HAVE THE CLIPPED POINTS LIKE THE OTHER EXAMPLES. I ASSUME THE BATACK WERE TRADING IN THE AREA IF NOT RELATED TO THE MURUT SO POSSIBLY THEY BROUGHT IN SOME TRADE BLADES

THERE ARE MANY VARIATIONS IN MOST WEAPONS EVEN IF THERE ARE NOT ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCES. SO THAT PART OF THE WORLD IS EVEN MORE VARIED DUE TO ALL THE INTERACTION OF MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES OVER A VERY LONG TIME.
I LIKE IT A LOT IT JUST WOULDN'T BE AS MUCH FUN IF EVERYTHING ETHINOGRAPHIC WAS JUST ALIKE.

[VVV]

Originally Posted by Dajak

I only see 2 pakayuns with the middle carved and you now this is very old style the one in your hands and mine

Ben,

You forgot about the third one, shown in Shelford's article.
Let's see who will find it?

Vandoo,

I think the resemblance on the Batak swords in this case is coincidental.
Those features, isolated, are present in several other areas as well and I haven't seen any Pakayun yet with a trade blade.
Also I haven't seen proof of that Bataks and Muruts had any direct cultural exchange.
Some Batak blades were influenced by the Portuguese however who also visited the Western coast of Borneo.
But I haven't read about any major influence on the Muruts from the Portuguese?
Instead Chinese traders had more early contact with them.

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi Bill yes take a good look at the Handle s the one you have to look for is
long brass collar and also if they have a scabbard it need to be one with carving on it

That s why I post these so people can see what they have to look like there are not so many pakayuns to compare

Hi Vandoo These blade forms are different from the Batak ones
it is like Michael says
also the muruts was a little group
And also thank to you I could make my pakayun collection
completer with an nice piece

[Dajak]

old Murut pic did get it from Michael