Knife with a Spanish Influence?

[RobT]

Lee,

Thanks for the new pictures, especially the one with the knife sheathed because I believe that (reverse) view shows the knife as it is meant to be sheathed. The clue is the diagonally transverse suspension which shows that the sheath is meant to be worn on the left side so that the throat points slightly forward and the tip points slightly backward. If the sheath were to be worn on the right side, the tip would point slightly forward and the throat slightly backward. If you strap your sheath to your waist, I’m sure you’ll see how awkward right side carry would look and how difficult it would be to quickly draw the blade.
All the similar sheaths in my collection show the same suspension configuration but more importantly, in all cases, when the blades are sheathed, either the hilts or the pommel are curved toward the front. That these blades were meant to be cross drawn is, I believe, an inescapable conclusion.
Given all of the above, I think that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of a Philippine origin for your entire ensemble. Congratulations on a truly outstanding addition to your collection.

Sincerely,
RobT
PS. I’m still having all sorts of trouble accessing the forum. Sometimes it lets me in sometimes it won’t.

[Ian]

Rob, Thanks for the new observations. With respect to the face/sun depiction, this does appear in Filipino iconography as you point out. I have never seen it depicted before on a leather sheath from the Philippines, hence my comment that it would be "highly atypical" for a Filipino sheath.

The sun/face motif does appear in other cultures, and I have encountered it in Southern Asia on various objects, particularly in Gujurat and Rajahstan. I don't know about Latin America, but possibly there also.

As for the mounting of the knife in this sheath, the sheath is for a left-handed person with the knife mounted on the right side. The front side of the sheath should be exposed, hence it needs to be mounted on the right hip. Lee's latest picture shows the back side of the sheath, not the front.

Regards, Ian.

[RobT]

Ian,

I wouldn't find it odd it for a member of the Philippine resistance to have the primary symbol of the resistance on his sheath. BTW the sun symbol is found on a number of South American flags and is also part of Masonic iconography. On a u-tube video, the presenter says that many members of the Philippine resistance were masons (Kirby Araullo, The Forgotten Meaning Behind the Sun on the Philippine Flag, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFG9w2KCSXI).
I am aware that Lee's photo is a backside view of the sheathed knife. That's why I said "reverse". That notwithstanding, if the sheath is worn on the right, the diagonally transverse suspension means that the tip of the sheath will project out in front of the wearer and the throat will open towards the back of the wearer. In addition to that, the buckle will be behind the sheath towards the back of the wearer. The only way to properly wear this sheath is on the left. If you have any doubt of this, I will be happy to post pictures of me wearing one of my examples. Once on the left and once on the right.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Ian]

Rob, all I can say is that if I pick up Lee's knife from his last post, and apply that to the right side of my body, then it is oriented correctly for a left-handed draw. If the knife is placed slightly forward of the hip, then there is no difficulty in closing the belt loop.


Regards, Ian

[RobT]

First, what I got right.
Here are photos of me wearing the first of the seven examples I initially presented in this thread (the only one with a complete suspension and belt).
The first photo shows left side carry with the throat decoration plainly visible and my right hand poised to draw the sword. Note the position of the sheath with the throat angled towards the front and the tip angled towards the rear. Also note the position of the belt buckle on the front of my body.
The second photo shows right side carry with the throat decoration plainly visible and my right hand in position to attempt to draw the sword. As you can see, any such attempt would be awkward at best because the throat of the sheath (and thus the hilt) is angled toward the back of the wearer. (Even a left hand draw would be difficult and then, the sword would have to be transferred to the right hand for use because most Filipinos, like the rest of the world, are right handed.) The position of the tip of the sheath projecting as it does in front of the wearer doesn’t pose any functional problem, it just looks silly.
The third photo is another right side carry view which shows the position of the belt buckle as being needlessly difficult to fasten and undo.
There are only two ways this sheath could be used for right side carry. One, the throat decoration must face the user’s body (which would seem to obviate any reason for the decoration in the first place). The second way would be to change the angle of the suspension so that the ring and leather strap now nearest the throat would be furthest from the throat and the ring and strap now furthest from the throat would be nearest to the throat. The buckle and belt strap components would also have to swap their respective positions. All of the above would result ln a sheath suitable for right side carry and left hand cross draw which would be impractical for the reason already covered above. Note that the suspensions on ALL the examples in this thread are aligned for left side carry (see new photo with my examples [with complete sheaths] sheathed).

Now, what I got wrong...sigh.
Given the above, it is obvious that I was wrong and Lee was right about the orientation of his knife as sheathed being incorrect. To be correct, the curve of the hilt would have to face the suspension ring nearest the throat. As shown in my carry photos above, the hilt must be curved or configured to support a right hand cross draw from a sheath on the left side. The hilt to blade orientation of Lee’s knife is correct (switching the existing orientation would be absurd both ergonomically and visually). So we are left with a knife not original to the sheath and of unknown origin but, since there is nothing about the style, construction, or materials that is inconsistent with Philippine manufacture, and there is not one shred of hard evidence pointing toward manufacture anywhere else, my money is still on the Philippines.


Sincerely,
RobT

[Lee]

Below is a picture of the sheath and knife oriented as they would be looking down if belted to the wearer's left side. With the decorated face out, the distal curve of the sheath is reversed compared with all of Rob's examples. The knife is lying as it would go into the sheath and the end is what governs the only way it can go. The narrow (edge) side of the mouth is to the front when strapped on to the left, but the one-sided taper of the end is reversed. In the end, this sheath appears to have been made wrong. The strap worn at its maximum buckled length accommodates a 38 inch girth.

A bladesmith friend of mine with Mexican heritage considered the leatherwork to be consistent with Mexican work in several details, but Rob's several examples strongly argue for a Philippine origin. My friend showed me a Tarahumara (a northern Mexican people) utility knife from the late 20th century and I include another image below as the clip point is similar.

[RobT]

Lee,

The sheath hasn’t been made incorrectly. The orientation of the angled suspension is correct and so is the placement of the buckle and belt straps. All these things match the examples I submitted. The problem is that the knife wasn’t made for the sheath.

Sincerely,
RobT