Madura Keris?

Pendita65 · 29th October 2025, 09:30 AM

Dear Mr. Maisey,

thank you again for the way you took the time to think about my question and giving an good explanation. Step by step i learn new things about the Keris and it is an never ending story i guess in getting into the depth of the keris and its meanings in execution and the mystical side of it.

I just aquired the book by David Gallas about the mystical side of the Keris.
called: Pusaka Pangruwating Jiwa.
So hope to gain more insight into the world of Keris.

Have a nice day and thank you so much again,

Regards, Martin

A. G. Maisey · 29th October 2025, 09:37 AM

You're most welcome Martin.

RobT · 30th October 2025, 06:09 AM

Regarding Alan Maisey’s footnote,

The practical reason for this angle (Condong Leleh) was discussed in this thread (http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5174) started by Michel on Sept. 3, 2007. Although I fenced sabre, I know that the blade angle on foils was considered so advantageous that the judges would rigorously check and limit the angle amount before and during matches.

Sincerely,
RobT

A. G. Maisey · 30th October 2025, 09:12 AM

Rob, you've used 'condong leleh' rather than 'condong campur', I think most people would agree with this usage, in fact I used to use leleh rather campur all the time myself.

A few months ago I was pulled up on this usage by a Javanese gentleman whom I regard as pretty well educated in matters revolving around the keris, he made the point that 'condong leleh' implies a 'soft angle' whilst 'condong campur' implies an angle that is not quite right. What he said made sense to me, even though the more usual usage is as you have given it.

Currently I'm using 'campur' & trying to find out how many people disagree with this. Currently its about a 50/50 split.

Jayaningkurnia · 24th November 2025, 10:33 PM

I understand in Madura, sandang walikat warangka are often used as the primary sandangan and more ornately decorated. There are several types/designs, among other Jurigan (the most common Sumenep style often paired with donoreko hilt), Saron, Nam-Nam, etc.

A. G. Maisey · 26th November 2025, 08:42 AM

Yes, some keris dress used in Madura is highly ornamented, my memory is that this ornamentation is not limited to sandang walikat form.

I do not understand the word "jurigan" in this context, can you please clarify.

Thank you.

30th October 2025, 06:09 AM	#3
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 613	Condong Lelah Discussion Regarding Alan Maisey’s footnote, The practical reason for this angle (Condong Leleh) was discussed in this thread (http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5174) started by Michel on Sept. 3, 2007. Although I fenced sabre, I know that the blade angle on foils was considered so advantageous that the judges would rigorously check and limit the angle amount before and during matches. Sincerely, RobT

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29th October 2025, 09:30 AM	#1
Pendita65 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 163	Dear Mr. Maisey, thank you again for the way you took the time to think about my question and giving an good explanation. Step by step i learn new things about the Keris and it is an never ending story i guess in getting into the depth of the keris and its meanings in execution and the mystical side of it. I just aquired the book by David Gallas about the mystical side of the Keris. called: Pusaka Pangruwating Jiwa. So hope to gain more insight into the world of Keris. Have a nice day and thank you so much again, Regards, Martin

29th October 2025, 09:37 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,177	You're most welcome Martin.

30th October 2025, 09:12 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,177	Rob, you've used 'condong leleh' rather than 'condong campur', I think most people would agree with this usage, in fact I used to use leleh rather campur all the time myself. A few months ago I was pulled up on this usage by a Javanese gentleman whom I regard as pretty well educated in matters revolving around the keris, he made the point that 'condong leleh' implies a 'soft angle' whilst 'condong campur' implies an angle that is not quite right. What he said made sense to me, even though the more usual usage is as you have given it. Currently I'm using 'campur' & trying to find out how many people disagree with this. Currently its about a 50/50 split.

24th November 2025, 10:33 PM	#5
Jayaningkurnia Member Join Date: Nov 2025 Posts: 7	I understand in Madura, sandang walikat warangka are often used as the primary sandangan and more ornately decorated. There are several types/designs, among other Jurigan (the most common Sumenep style often paired with donoreko hilt), Saron, Nam-Nam, etc.

26th November 2025, 08:42 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,177	Yes, some keris dress used in Madura is highly ornamented, my memory is that this ornamentation is not limited to sandang walikat form. I do not understand the word "jurigan" in this context, can you please clarify. Thank you.