Saif, Moroccan saif, sife, nimcha, nimsha

Jim McDougall · 20th May 2025, 05:30 AM

Thank you so much Yuri! I could not open this due to restrictions, but Im familiar with the work of Lenz from ZWHK.
Interesting note on the term 'gurda' which I am familiar with as the term for the 'Genoan' sickle marks copied on Chechen sword blades in the Caucusus.
These and other markings were copied on these blades, likely from Genoan trade ports in the Black Sea.

The subject of markings as applied by distinct makers in Italy is daunting as there was a great deal of spurious use by others, and the variations of some of the more ubiquitous Italian marks seem to be used in unusual configurations and pairings. The marca mosca, and 'pi' marks seen in the plate you show do not appear to belong to a particular maker.

Genoa was primarily a port of export, and the so called 'sickle' marks, though used by various blade making locations in North Italy, again sometimes in unusual variation, became deemed 'Genoan' as that was where they came from. These and many of the other markings noted became copied on blades in Germany and Styria, as well as other locations, and often it is hard to determine a blades origin by focus on markings.

Often makers worked in the shops of other makers, such as the noted Ferrara brothers, who though working in the forge of a maker in Belluno, with the name of Andrea Ferrara becoming legendary. The consternation regarding this is well known, but as far as known, no blades by him and marked as such are known (obviously there have been some suggested).

Another conundrum are the blades of CAINO. Again widely copied, it is unclear if by two makers named Caino (separate locations) or perhaps the city of Caino (near Milan) . Blades have the name Caino and various marks (M over an S, or over a mark).....but most distinctively typically have strange groupings of letters, often sequenced, that seem to be acrostics or some coded letter combinations.

These are a few of the mysterious markings, names etc. that turn up on blades that have entered the trade networks which have supplied many cultural spheres, and have circulated for generations if not even centuries.

This is what makes these ethnographic weapons so fascinating, and thank you for keeping this thread so interesting.

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20th May 2025, 05:30 AM	#15
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,449	Thank you so much Yuri! I could not open this due to restrictions, but Im familiar with the work of Lenz from ZWHK. Interesting note on the term 'gurda' which I am familiar with as the term for the 'Genoan' sickle marks copied on Chechen sword blades in the Caucusus. These and other markings were copied on these blades, likely from Genoan trade ports in the Black Sea. The subject of markings as applied by distinct makers in Italy is daunting as there was a great deal of spurious use by others, and the variations of some of the more ubiquitous Italian marks seem to be used in unusual configurations and pairings. The marca mosca, and 'pi' marks seen in the plate you show do not appear to belong to a particular maker. Genoa was primarily a port of export, and the so called 'sickle' marks, though used by various blade making locations in North Italy, again sometimes in unusual variation, became deemed 'Genoan' as that was where they came from. These and many of the other markings noted became copied on blades in Germany and Styria, as well as other locations, and often it is hard to determine a blades origin by focus on markings. Often makers worked in the shops of other makers, such as the noted Ferrara brothers, who though working in the forge of a maker in Belluno, with the name of Andrea Ferrara becoming legendary. The consternation regarding this is well known, but as far as known, no blades by him and marked as such are known (obviously there have been some suggested). Another conundrum are the blades of CAINO. Again widely copied, it is unclear if by two makers named Caino (separate locations) or perhaps the city of Caino (near Milan) . Blades have the name Caino and various marks (M over an S, or over a mark).....but most distinctively typically have strange groupings of letters, often sequenced, that seem to be acrostics or some coded letter combinations. These are a few of the mysterious markings, names etc. that turn up on blades that have entered the trade networks which have supplied many cultural spheres, and have circulated for generations if not even centuries. This is what makes these ethnographic weapons so fascinating, and thank you for keeping this thread so interesting.