Thick knife frome Bali/Lombok - Page 2

Ian · 14th March 2025, 03:50 AM

Oh Alan, your tale of a housekeeper reminds me of a very awkward experience when I stayed with a friend in Gujarat. He was the younger son of the late Maharajar of Dranghadra, a former Rajphut principality. We would be served by his cook for all meals and tea. This poor woman was of a reasonable caste, not dahlit (untouchable), but she treated me like a king. She insisted on washing my feet if I had been outside and would kneel with her face touching the ground when spoken to. I was very uncomfortable (to say the least). I asked my friend (the Prince) to ask her not to do that, but he said it was what she was taught to do and she would feel hurt if I stopped her.

Such customs (outdated by a hundred plus years IMHO) were still present in the early 21st C, and probably still are. I chose to swallow my Western bias and acceot her for what she wanted to be. We actually became friends and she taught me some of her recipes. Outside the kitchen, we returned to our socially appropriate postures and customs. Only in her kitchen were we allowed to be two human beings talking equally.

A. G. Maisey · 14th March 2025, 04:03 AM

Maybe I got the behaviour I was comfortable with because there were no observers, just the housekeeper & myself. If anybody had been watching, things might have been different.

In a way, it can be fun being equated to God on Earth, but it soon wears pretty thin.

Being called to breakfast (in Javanese) that translates as :- "my Lord, your morning meal is now ready" is just a bit too heavy i think.

Guess I never was born to be part of the ruling class.

SidJ · 4th April 2025, 11:08 PM

A Jawa wedhung was auctioned as part of the fabled Missilier collection recently. Lot 315 for those interested. This is the write-up. I am not sure if wedhung were used for funerary purposes not least because Jawa is Islamic and the practice referred to may be more Hindu Balinese. Anyway, any thoughts welcome -

Javanese ritual knife used by priests during funeral ceremonies, to symbolically sever ties with the world of the living. This example is particularly luxurious, with a handle in fossilized mastodon tooth and gilded metal, and a wooden scabbard decorated with gold thread instead of the usual rattan. It features a horn belt hook. This piece was probably intended for royal funeral rites.

A. G. Maisey · 4th April 2025, 11:44 PM

I tried to find the auction listing & I could not, however, the reported text that seems to have accompanied the listing does look to be somewhat confused.

SidJ · 5th April 2025, 12:20 AM

My thoughts exactly Alan. See the link and go to lot 315.
https://www.gazette-drouot.com/en/au...ier-collection

A. G. Maisey · 5th April 2025, 05:22 AM

Thank you Sid, yes, way off track.

But still, a nice piece.

David · 5th April 2025, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidJ

Javanese ritual knife used by priests during funeral ceremonies, to symbolically sever ties with the world of the living. This example is particularly luxurious, with a handle in fossilized mastodon tooth and gilded metal, and a wooden scabbard decorated with gold thread instead of the usual rattan. It features a horn belt hook. This piece was probably intended for royal funeral rites.

It sounds like they were confused by the common misconception that Balinese pengentas are a form of wedhung because this is the description most often applied to them.

SidJ · 5th April 2025, 08:14 PM

Well could be a rookie error which if so is embarrassing given the circumstances. But the story that was spun also happens to be a lot more alluring and exciting compared to tool symbolising servility to the King or symbolic grass cutter to enable the King to walk freely!

Sajen · 5th April 2025, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidJ

My thoughts exactly Alan. See the link and go to lot 315.
https://www.gazette-drouot.com/en/au...ier-collection

The pic. for later reference.

Sajen · 5th April 2025, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidJ

Well could be a rookie error which if so is embarrassing given the circumstances. But the story that was spun also happens to be a lot more alluring and exciting compared to tool symbolising servility to the King or symbolic grass cutter to enable the King to walk freely!

Well said!

Sajen · 7th April 2025, 02:58 PM

Lust got the information that I am the winner of this Bali knife. 44 cm long.

7th April 2025, 02:58 PM	#41
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,156	Lust got the information that I am the winner of this Bali knife. 44 cm long. Attached Images

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14th March 2025, 03:50 AM	#31
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,360	Oh Alan, your tale of a housekeeper reminds me of a very awkward experience when I stayed with a friend in Gujarat. He was the younger son of the late Maharajar of Dranghadra, a former Rajphut principality. We would be served by his cook for all meals and tea. This poor woman was of a reasonable caste, not dahlit (untouchable), but she treated me like a king. She insisted on washing my feet if I had been outside and would kneel with her face touching the ground when spoken to. I was very uncomfortable (to say the least). I asked my friend (the Prince) to ask her not to do that, but he said it was what she was taught to do and she would feel hurt if I stopped her. Such customs (outdated by a hundred plus years IMHO) were still present in the early 21st C, and probably still are. I chose to swallow my Western bias and acceot her for what she wanted to be. We actually became friends and she taught me some of her recipes. Outside the kitchen, we returned to our socially appropriate postures and customs. Only in her kitchen were we allowed to be two human beings talking equally.

14th March 2025, 04:03 AM	#32
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,988	Maybe I got the behaviour I was comfortable with because there were no observers, just the housekeeper & myself. If anybody had been watching, things might have been different. In a way, it can be fun being equated to God on Earth, but it soon wears pretty thin. Being called to breakfast (in Javanese) that translates as :- "my Lord, your morning meal is now ready" is just a bit too heavy i think. Guess I never was born to be part of the ruling class.

4th April 2025, 11:08 PM	#33
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 207	A Jawa wedhung was auctioned as part of the fabled Missilier collection recently. Lot 315 for those interested. This is the write-up. I am not sure if wedhung were used for funerary purposes not least because Jawa is Islamic and the practice referred to may be more Hindu Balinese. Anyway, any thoughts welcome - Javanese ritual knife used by priests during funeral ceremonies, to symbolically sever ties with the world of the living. This example is particularly luxurious, with a handle in fossilized mastodon tooth and gilded metal, and a wooden scabbard decorated with gold thread instead of the usual rattan. It features a horn belt hook. This piece was probably intended for royal funeral rites.

4th April 2025, 11:44 PM	#34
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,988	I tried to find the auction listing & I could not, however, the reported text that seems to have accompanied the listing does look to be somewhat confused.

5th April 2025, 12:20 AM	#35
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 207	My thoughts exactly Alan. See the link and go to lot 315. https://www.gazette-drouot.com/en/au...ier-collection

5th April 2025, 05:22 AM	#36
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,988	Thank you Sid, yes, way off track. But still, a nice piece.

5th April 2025, 08:14 PM	#38
SidJ Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 207	Well could be a rookie error which if so is embarrassing given the circumstances. But the story that was spun also happens to be a lot more alluring and exciting compared to tool symbolising servility to the King or symbolic grass cutter to enable the King to walk freely!