cannonballs....

[cel7]

Besides the small "cannon" from my other post, there were also some cannonballs. From the photos that the auction house had on their site and also based on the description, I thought that these were partly mortars or hand grenades. The holes that I thought were for inserting the fuse appear to be holes that go completely through the "cannonball". The ball is therefore not hollow but solid minus the hole. I think that these are not cannonballs but some kind of weights. What do you think?

[M ELEY]

Hmm. Yeah, one would usually expect to see one hole for the fuse/powder fill. The fact that it goes all the way through and also not hollow except for the channel seems to indicate another use. Many of these types that get confused with mortar shells, coehorn and grenades are often old counter-weights used for mechanisms (gate openers, large clock mechanisms, etc). There is always the small chance that these could still have had some military use, such as in chainshot, barshot, etc lacking some components, but without a maritime provenance, this is just guesswork.

[Ed]

They were probably used as weights but might have begun life as a cannonball. Do the holes look cast or drilled?

I was sobered to learn that they use iron balls in gizmos to crush rock.

[M ELEY]

Ed brought up a good point indeed. Many so-called 'cannon balls' are actually mill balls used in tumblers to crush rocks into gravel. Then again, there are other suspects, like counter-weights, shot-puts, flag staff ends, iron rail ends, etc.

[Will M]

Grinder balls typically have flat spots and their weight does not match common cannon ball sizes. Pictured are some British 12, 24, 32 lb balls. Broad arrow ball 24 lb fired in 1760 at a French fort in Canada.

[Rick]

Here's my entrant in the cannon ball division.
Roughly 5" in diameter, hollow, weighs about 8 pounds but feels heavier than I would have thought. The only way to measure its weight was for me to get on our bathroom scale with and without it in my hands.
So much for accuracy in weight, but it was the best I could do under the circumstances.
Opinions?

Picture is larger than the actual ball.

[cel7]

Thank you all for your comments!

Unfortunately no cannonballs then, although they were advertised as such by the auction. I have since sent them an email to point out their mistake.

[M ELEY]

Will M, I remember that great 'broad arrow' marked piece! I'm envious!
Rick, that is a great shell cannonball! It would be heavier if it were full of powder and small shot! I'm no expert on these and as these types have been around as early as the mid-17th up to the mid-19th and used throughout Europe and here in the U.S, someone more knowledgeable than me would have to wager an educated guess.

cel7, sorry for the bad news-

[Jim McDougall]

I haven't entered on this as I know little on ordnance and shot, but pretty fascinating discussion. I would have thought as Cel had suggested originally these might be weights for line etc.

Good notes on the nature of mill balls, and it seems there are likely a number of uses for these kinds of iron balls.

Amazing images of that cannon ball from French fort in Canada with the British broad arrow! I like the display with the vintage book in context!

Years ago I had an old cannon ball from War of 1812 I got in New Orleans. It was a smaller one but recall the puzzled reaction by security at the airport.
It sat on my desk for many years, until one day it literally disintegrated, rust corrosion from within.

[adrian]

Here's my entrant in the cannon ball division.
Roughly 5" in diameter, hollow, weighs about 8 pounds......Opinions?

It is most likely a Common Shell, however without knowing what country you acquired it in and without an accurate diameter dimension one can say little more.

[Rick]

I have a friend here in Massachusetts who has been a 'Yankee Horse Trader', restauranteur and collector of old stuff most of his life; we swap stuff often.
He was departing for Florida for the winter and told me to choose one from a pile he had in his backyard.
So I did.

Some were solid and some were like the example shown in my post. I also acquired a full-length Virginia Armory type 2 hussar's saber from him which is a pretty rare American sword.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Good notes on the nature of mill balls, and it seems there are likely a number of uses for these kinds of iron balls.

I seem to remember seeing 20 years ago a couple of these mill balls for auction on eBay purported to be wootz cakes.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Rick

I have a friend here in Massachusetts who has been a 'Yankee Horse Trader', restauranteur and collector of old stuff most of his life; we swap stuff often.
He was departing for Florida for the winter and told me to choose one from a pile he had in his backyard.
So I did.

Some were solid and some were like the example shown in my post. I also acquired a full-length Virginia Armory type 2 hussar's saber from him which is a pretty rare American sword.

Auughhh!! Rick! I remember that Virginia Manufactory type 2!!!
AMAZING! and yeah, rare to say the least!
You should start a thread on that,

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Rick

I seem to remember seeing 20 years ago a couple of these mill balls for auction on eBay purported to be wootz cakes.

The wootz cake mysteries, really brings back the old days

[M ELEY]

Here's a few from my collection. The large one is a 6 -pounder reportedly from the Charleston, SC area circa 1770's. The 6 pounders were used by both the Continentals and the Red Coats.

Also in the picture is my chainshot piece, which I had suggested these types posted by Cel7 might still be some sort of unusual shot. I have seen balls with the chain all the way through the ball and bolted to the other end. Likewise, there were early spike shot from the Elizabethan period with a round ball and spikes projecting through it front and back that combustable material could be wrapped around and set alight. This is just guesswork without provenance for any of the auction items presented by Cel7.

And, of course, I have two round stone balls presented to me as 'stone cannon balls' in this pic. Cannonballs made of stone did exist from around 1400 up to the English Civil War (mid-17th). They came in a variety of sizes much like cannon and musket shot of the same period. Stone balls were particularly effective on ships, as they could easily punch a hole through a rival vessel's hull, immediately shattering into a lagrage of deadly projectiles. Cheaper to use than iron at the time (and not requiring a forge to make!), they were time-consuming to create and became obsolete as ships' hulls became thicker into the late 17th c. Many stone balls are listed as 'cannonballs', but turn out to be decorative garden balls or Native American gaming balls, etc. (To dispel one rumor, there were never perfectly round 'mill balls' used to imitate these. Iron mill balls, on the other hand, do mimic real cannon balls). So...I'm not sure if I have the real deal or not. My two are hand-carved and very old. They do very much resemble specimens found off of County Antrim, Ireland, where the Spanish Armada broke up.

[M ELEY]

Here's an early grenado, perhaps, 1600's. It is roughly the size of a plum. Gilkerson, in Boarders Away II, says that these came in two sizes. Mine appears to be an 'Army' type, whereas naval grenados were larger, perhaps the size of a large orange. I know there are other shells with powder that were used like hand grenades, but the standard pattern 'easy to throw' types are the previously mentioned sizes. Mine has the distinction of still being filled to the rim with old congealed powder and shot (you can look down the hole and see it). As black powder can last for centuries, I keep this item in this highly protective plastic casing to shelter me if it explodes ()! Actually, it is just to keep it dry. It is stored in a shadowy corner of my cabinet and I've used melted candle wax to 'seal it' as I have every belief that it is still techniquely explosive. But I won't go throwing it in any campfires any time soon!

[M ELEY]

Here we have a 2 pounder cannonball, reportedly dug locally at the Yadkin River (near my home) where a skirmish during the Revolutionary War took place at the Battle of the Shallow Ford. The Americans liked these smaller ordenance as they could be fired from small cannons called 'grasshoppers' (as they jumped off the grass with firing!) that could be pulled behind a single draft horse to position it. Incidentally, 2 pounders were also used in swival guns placed on gunwales to rake enemy boats approaching and on wall swivels on forts. The Lewis and Clark expedition had a small swivel gun mounted on their front batteau as they made their way on their historic voyage.

[M ELEY]

Forgot to mention that these 'grenadoes' where sometimes lit and then shot out of small mortars before they exploded, adding greatly to the distance they could be 'delivered'!!

[Jim McDougall]

These are incredible displays Capn, the Eley Maritime Museum!!!
It is amazing to see these items together in context like this. I dont know much on ordnance but I know its an area you have studied intently.
Would powder inside these be inert or completely gone after time ?

[M ELEY]

Hello Cap'n Jim! Good to hear from you! Black powder apparently has a very long shelf life and it is the reason that collectors have to be very careful if there is still powder in these shells. Most of the time, it gets washed away or mixes with earth and becomes inert. That being said, there have been people injured or even killed when dealing with these. The small grenado I posted is the only item I have that I know still has powder present. Years ago, I owned a very old coehorn mortar shell that someone plugged the hole with lead. Was it inert? I never found out, which is a good thing! Sold it a few years later. I know there have been places in Europe where old mortar shells from the 18th and earlier are found and the bomb squad is usually called in to safely detonate them.

Here's the sad story of a colletor who wasn't so lucky-

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna24441427